Why do Birds of Prey deserve a god like status ? Is it sustainable ?

[billy_boyle_2010]

Hi guys

This will be a contentious issue. Just to be crystal clear-

1) I have never knowingly injured or harmed any bird of Prey

2) never will I do so.

3) I quite enjoy seeing them. They are pure killing machines at the top of their food chain.

Having established the above- I do wonder why they deserve such a god like status amongst so many ? Given their numbers are increasing considerably- will there ever be a place for strict numbers control ?

They certainly aren't our friends in the same way as domestic animals are......but perhaps its that we can bend them to our will a little that means we look on them favourably ?

Their numbers have been low historically and everyone roots for the underdog.

They don't typically attack livestock (Scotch eagles being the exception perhaps)- so aren't a problem ?

Am I missing something ?

And what would need to happen before their numbers would need to be controlled? If livestock is ever in danger I suppose. But I can't see it being popular- even in the shooting community?

 

[VSS]

They're not the only animals with a God like status. Read through a few threads on here and compare people's attitudes to killing deer and foxes. Deer get the utmost respect, the close up humane kill is essential, long range sniping is really frowned upon, people agonise over losing a wounded animal even to the extent of calling out a specialist dog handler to help them find it. Some even indulge in a little ritual over the carcass of each deer they shoot. And so on.
Fox? If you see it, shoot it, distance no object. Provided you hit it somewhere it's bound to end up dead. Next please!

 

[User00040]

BOP have been shot under license in the UK when in close proximity to airfields, especially defence related

 

[Smellydog]

Sick of buzzards! There, I said it.....

 

[Beretta V]

There is no doubt that they and other protected species require management when numbers get too high.
Reality is it won’t happen as too many people think they know how to manage the countryside but most have never worked or lived in the countryside.

I live near a nature reserve and I mostly see magpies, buzzards, squirrels and badgers.
Hardly any song birds, no hedgehog and that’s just to name a few species

 

[landkeeper]

Apex predators especially bops will self regulate their own numbers very quickly the difference between living and dying with something the size of a sparrowhawk is mere ounces
The volume of juvenile buzzards for eg that don't make their 1st winter is huge
I have a friend that does bop rescue every year he's inundated with underweight starving young buzzards
As far as controlling numbers there's no way and rightly so IMHO they should be especially over released gamebirds
Now eagles taking lambs is a whole other ball game

 

[Freeforester]

As with everything, it’s a question of balance; rural communities and field sport interests seeking to actively enhance their returns in investment and effort and maintain their way of life do not garner many votes, nor is there much if any appetite in permitting the removal of problem birds, so localised problems fester and cause resentment to authority figures with no skin in the game. Like Beretta V, I’ve seen plenty of nothing on most “conservation” agency managed reserves, and there are simply too many examples (where always it is the prey species who pay for the incompetence of the “managers”) where nothing of value is raised, or if it is, it is at unsustainable cost. Contrast this to the level of biodiversity to be found on any well managed moorland (ground nesting birds, other than grouse also abound), and it is clear which route helps to fill and which to drain the already half full/empty glass. Ironically so, given that both ideologies purport to want to increase biodiversity. They forgot about the birds!

It’s been several decades now since an objective back to back trial was undertaken where one portion of land is managed fully against the effects and causes of predation, and the other is “conserved” according to eg RSPV guidelines (Vidar Marcström’s back to back control study set the standard, his papers still available from University of Uppsala, Sweden), and little by way of the nature and relationship between predator and prey has changed in the interim, despite the waffle merchants on MSM; this does tend to suggest that it is more a political posture/anti-fieldsport stance than objective conservation effort by the detractors, whereas Songbird Survival take a far more balanced approach, though are of course vilified for so doing by their erstwhile fellow birds chums. The sums wasted by such types is staggering when compared with private concern, especially given the dismal results, writ large in the case of the capercaillie, or the eider colony Nr Slains, etc.

#smokeandmirrors

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

They're not the only animals with a God like status. Read through a few threads on here and compare people's attitudes to killing deer and foxes. Deer get the utmost respect, the close up humane kill is essential, long range sniping is really frowned upon, people agonise over losing a wounded animal even to the extent of calling out a specialist dog handler to help them find it. Some even indulge in a little ritual over the carcass of each deer they shoot. And so on.
Fox? If you see it, shoot it, distance no object. Provided you hit it somewhere it's bound to end up dead. Next please!

An excellent point. I'm always pretty horrified at how people treat foxes. I take as much care at pulling the trigger on a fox as I do a deer. Perhaps even more so given the target is smaller. Using explosive bullets and being a little over gunned does mean one can take slightly more difficult shots- but not much IMO.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Sick of buzzards! There, I said it.....

Why ? Care to elaborate ?

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

There is no doubt that they and other protected species require management when numbers get too high.
Reality is it won’t happen as too many people think they know how to manage the countryside but most have never worked or lived in the countryside.

I live near a nature reserve and I mostly see magpies, buzzards, squirrels and badgers.
Hardly any song birds, no hedgehog and that’s just to name a few species

Yup I can believe that

Apex predators especially bops will self regulate their own numbers very quickly the difference between living and dying with something the size of a sparrowhawk is mere ounces
The volume of juvenile buzzards for eg that don't make their 1st winter is huge
I have a friend that does bop rescue every year he's inundated with underweight starving young buzzards
As far as controlling numbers there's no way and rightly so IMHO they should be especially over released gamebirds
Now eagles taking lambs is a whole other ball game

I suppose everyone considers a certain number of pheasants written off. Lambs on the other hand.....

 

[User00036]

Apex predators have godlike status for one reason only, they are responsible for filling the coffers of animal charities. No one seems to give a **** about sparrows, or stone loach or eels. That photo of a seal cub raised more money than Save the Children, & spawned god knows how many industries. Seal Patrol, Seal Watch Seal trips Seal vaccines, & of Coarse that one hit wonder,........Seal.

 

[Smellydog]

Why ? Care to elaborate ?

They sit there for hours picking off ground nesters. All the larks and meadow pipets get snaffled up
A nest of baby rabbits, no chance.
Brown crows they are.

 

[Liveonce]

They sit there for hours picking off ground nesters. All the larks and meadow pipets get snaffled up
A nest of baby rabbits, no chance.
Brown crows they are.

but is that just not nature at work? Darwin’s theory? Why do humans think nature needs human intervention?

contentious issue?

 

[timbrayford]

Unfortunately both BOPs and mammals like badgers have suffered from population crashes in the past warranting strong legal protection measures. However, no thought seems to have been given to what happens once these populations have recovered and these creatures themselves start to cause environmental imbalances such as excessive numbers of hedgehogs being eaten.

 

[Smellydog]

but is that just not nature at work? Darwin’s theory? Why do humans think nature needs human intervention?

contentious issue?

Darwin's theory is just a ....theory.

If you get 500 rats take up residence in your home do you just leave them be?

 

[TURNBOLT]

Unfortunately both BOPs and mammals like badgers have suffered from population crashes in the past warranting strong legal protection measures. However, no thought seems to have been given to what happens once these populations have recovered and these creatures themselves start to cause environmental imbalances such as excessive numbers of hedgehogs being eaten.

When did Badgers suffer from a population crash Tim? I am 74 ,we have always had badgers and after 2 years culling we still have too many for the good of ground nesting/living wildlife.We have a noticeable void of small birds (bird flu ? ) but plenty of ( far too many) birds of prey and ravens by the dozen !! No one is bothered about small birds , a disgraceful state of affairs really.

 

[RCS Deer Management]

but is that just not nature at work? Darwin’s theory? Why do humans think nature needs human intervention?

contentious issue?

Because nature does need human intervention due to the fact that the country side is no longer natural.

 

[VSS]

When did Badgers suffer from a population crash Tim? I am 74 ,we have always had badgers and after 2 years culling we still have too many for the good of ground nesting/living wildlife.We have a noticeable void of small birds (bird flu ? ) but plenty of ( far too many) birds of prey and ravens by the dozen !! No one is bothered about small birds , a disgraceful state of affairs really.

Badgers were very scarce during the 1970s / 80s. Pretty much wiped out in most places.

 

[TURNBOLT]

Badgers were very scarce during the 1970s / 80s. Pretty much wiped out in most places.

Not around us !! we had a very healthy population .

 

[VSS]

Not around us !! we had a very healthy population .

One of the few, then.