308 or 6.5cm

[norcan]

@Irish Bob
While it’s true that many chamberings come and go, with the staggering number of rifles now sold, the 6.5 CM seems quite solidly established — even though it’s just an inferior version of a cartridge that was perfected in 1894, the 6.5x55.

As you said, what matters on the range is different than in the field. For hunting and normal-range shooting practice, picking whichever one has better ammo pricing and selection locally probably isn’t a bad strategy.

 

[25 Sharps]

My 6.5CM has an 18" barrel and I use Winchester Deer Season XP 125g.
On the box it says 2850fps, on the chrono it says 2668fps. I zero at 175y and Strelok Pro says that between 50y & 200y I get a total rise and fall of 2.1 inches, which seems right from the results I have had.
It is so nice to shoot and so wonderfully accurate that I also take it foxing with my thermal fitted when the ground dictates.
I did get told by people who know what they are talking about, that the faster twist rate of the 6.5CM is better suited to copper ammo. I just know it is accurate with that stuff to.
Never having owned a .308 I can not comment on its performance, however, either round will drop deer, choose the rifle you are happy with and fits you best and enjoy your hunting.

Your twist rate might work with lead free, your barrel length won’t do you any favours

 

[PhilSN12]

Your twist rate might work with lead free, your barrel length won’t do you any favours

It works a treat with the copper loads I have made for me. Only tested the rounds out to 200y so far and there is not a spot of bother getting a 1 MOA group, and thats all I need as I will only use them on deer.
When I was going to but my rifle, I had negative comments on its make, calibre & the scope I bought to go with it. Now I have had it over six months and it has surpassed all my expectations, it is the weapon I reach for above all others and I would 100% recommend the combination. It is light, the barrel is a great length for hunting, low recoil, accurate calibre which stops what I shoot. Yep, I can see why people have a problem with it!

 

[25 Sharps]

It works a treat with the copper loads I have made for me. Only tested the rounds out to 200y so far and there is not a spot of bother getting a 1 MOA group, and thats all I need as I will only use them on deer.
When I was going to but my rifle, I had negative comments on its make, calibre & the scope I bought to go with it. Now I have had it over six months and it has surpassed all my expectations, it is the weapon I reach for above all others and I would 100% recommend the combination. It is light, the barrel is a great length for hunting, low recoil, accurate calibre which stops what I shoot. Yep, I can see why people have a problem with it!

Accuracy isn’t what I was talking about, a short barrel can be an accurate barrel.

Terminal velocity is important for lead free, TTSX have a minimum terminal velocity of around 2200 fps. If you are getting a similar velocity as you are with the Winchester factory ammunition then you will be below that by 250 yards with a 120 TTSX.

The rule of thumb most people work with 3000 FPS muzzle velocity as a minimum for lead free, you will struggle with that from an 18” barrel.

 

[PhilSN12]

Accuracy isn’t what I was talking about, a short barrel can be an accurate barrel.

Terminal velocity is important for lead free, TTSX have a minimum terminal velocity of around 2200 fps. If you are getting a similar velocity as you are with the Winchester factory ammunition then you will be below that by 250 yards with a 120 TTSX.

The rule of thumb most people work with 3000 FPS muzzle velocity as a minimum for lead free, you will struggle with that from an 18” barrel.

I have not run the new ammo through the chrono yet so will let you know.
However, using Strelok Pro and the data I have on the Winchester ammo which is almost the same weight, the rounds easily exceed the minimum muzzle energy and are over 2200 fps at 200y which is the maximum range I have always engaged any of the deer species.

 

[tacklerat]

I have one of each, well there's actually two Creedmoors in the safe, but one is for paper. The all round cartrdge has yeat to be invented, and a lot depends on what your quarry might be. I shoot mainly Fallow for meat and found the 270 was far too harsh. Let's face it you can kill most of the lighter species with a 243, or even a 22/250. But if you gravitate to the bigger deer like Reds, then I can see a use for the 308 there, or on the off chance a pigs might stick it's snout out.
The range of the Creedmoor is really onbly related to punching paper, and as I don't like taking a shoot past 200m that discussion is irrellevant. So for hunting deer even up to reds and using the right bullet, the Creedmoor will be fine. The right bullet and the right shot placement are of greater importance than calibre. My Creedmoor is a Tikka lite by the way. I handload for both, and the 308 is no slouch where accuracy is concerned.

 

[25 Sharps]

I have not run the new ammo through the chrono yet so will let you know.
However, using Strelok Pro and the data I have on the Winchester ammo which is almost the same weight, the rounds easily exceed the minimum muzzle energy and are over 2200 fps at 200y which is the maximum range I have always engaged any of the deer species.

I have one of each, well there's actually two Creedmoors in the safe, but one is for paper. The all round cartrdge has yeat to be invented, and a lot depends on what your quarry might be. I shoot mainly Fallow for meat and found the 270 was far too harsh. Let's face it you can kill most of the lighter species with a 243, or even a 22/250. But if you gravitate to the bigger deer like Reds, then I can see a use for the 308 there, or on the off chance a pigs might stick it's snout out.
The range of the Creedmoor is really onbly related to punching paper, and as I don't like taking a shoot past 200m that discussion is irrellevant. So for hunting deer even up to reds and using the right bullet, the Creedmoor will be fine. The right bullet and the right shot placement are of greater importance than calibre. My Creedmoor is a Tikka lite by the way. I handload for both, and the 308 is no slouch where accuracy is concerned.

If neither of you feel comfortable shooting deer past 200 metres that’s fine, doesn’t mean others don’t shoot further. Also there might be occasion where you shoot a deer at 200 metres, it goes wrong and you have to put another shot in at greater distance, so performance beyond 200 metres isn’t irrelevant, even if you choose to restrict yourself to that range.

 

[PhilSN12]

If neither of you feel comfortable shooting deer past 200 metres that’s fine, doesn’t mean others don’t shoot further. Also there might be occasion where you shoot a deer at 200 metres, it goes wrong and you have to put another shot in at greater distance, so performance beyond 200 metres isn’t irrelevant, even if you choose to restrict yourself to that range.

If I do shoot a deer at under 200 yards (having spent time in the army shooting team I know how far I can shoot), and its a runner, would I be the first to struggle to find it after it darted back into a wood line?
According to you, what range should I make sure the round reaches the figures required at the muzzle, is their a system/software we all should use to get the results and make you happy and who voted you in as the deer/rifle king?
The bottom line is, I will chose the rifle, barrel length and round I am happy with and that I know will do the job not matter how much you sit in the corner wringing your hands and saying what if!

 

[25 Sharps]

If I do shoot a deer at under 200 yards (having spent time in the army shooting team I know how far I can shoot), and its a runner, would I be the first to struggle to find it after it darted back into a wood line?
According to you, what range should I make sure the round reaches the figures required at the muzzle, is their a system/software we all should use to get the results and make you happy and who voted you in as the deer/rifle king?
The bottom line is, I will chose the rifle, barrel length and round I am happy with and that I know will do the job not matter how much you sit in the corner wringing your hands and saying what if!

Have a read on the threads on non lead ammunition on here, there are plenty, generally accepted wisdom is 3000 fps muzzle velocity for lead free ammunition.

It’s entirely up to you what rifle you choose and what muzzle velocity, but that doesn’t mean that it suits everyone else, or that advising a long barrel is a bad idea just because you can’t get one out of the boot or walk through a door with it is sensible advice.

 

[25 Sharps]

6.5 CM 100.0000000000000000%

The ammo sells out fast for a reason.

The ammo is coming through in small drops to RFDs, I've been getting drip fed American Whitetail and having spoken to supplier and importer I know more is coming before Xmas, though you might have to phone around a bit.

This is surely reason to get .308, ammunition is far more common and easy to get hold of! Creedmoor sells fast because there is not enough imported to satisfy the need, that will never be said of .308.

 

[JTO]

who voted you in as the deer/rifle king?

There are many on here that think they can help others, but the way that some try to 'help', makes them sound like egotistical p****s.

 

[MarinePMI]

<sigh>

Pick either one. Deer aren't hard to kill.

I prefer the 6.5 CM, but that is because of the sheer number of rounds I have fired in that chambering (north of 8k in just my AI rifles). That being said, I've hunted deer with .308 as well. They were just as dead as those shot with a 6.5CM. Personally, I like the lesser recoil of the 6.5CM, so that I can see splash at long range, as well as getting back onto target more quickly if a second shot is needed (don't get me started on ELD-X bullets sucking again; Sierra 130 TMK's are Thor's hammer however). But that is just me.

And yes, some of us do take deer past 200yds.

<shrug> Either will work for deer.

 

[malmick]

^ This
I've got a reasonably lightweight .308 stalking rifle and a heavier 6.5CM target rifle and I would be happy with both out to 250-300m.

 

[Laurie]

The GGG 155gr .308 match ammo that the NRA use for competitions is absolutely blistering fast, coming out at approx 3000fps.

Actually, nominally 50-75 fps less than that, although I'm sure some new or as-new TR rifle barrels will see 3,000 fps, especially if 32-inch length. However, those MVs are only available from 30-32 inch barrels, moreover ones with a 'tight' bore (0.298" across the lands; 0.3085-3086 across the grooves v the standard SAAMI 0.300/0.3080" specs) that raises pressures and MVs. F-TR competitors handloaded 155gn ammo to considerably higher MVs than 3,000 fps, but in non-standard chambers, when that bullet weight was the norm. None of this means anything to a typical deerstalker - it's like saying an out and out racing or rally saloon that outwardly looks like something in the local car dealership has relevance to a family motorist's choice of a new steed.

 

[MarinePMI]

Actually, nominally 50-75 fps less than that, although I'm sure some new or as-new TR rifle barrels will see 3,000 fps, especially if 32-inch length. However, those MVs are only available from 30-32 inch barrels, moreover ones with a 'tight' bore (0.298" across the lands; 0.3085-3086 across the grooves v the standard SAAMI 0.300/0.3080" specs) that raises pressures and MVs. F-TR competitors handloaded 155gn ammo to considerably higher MVs than 3,000 fps, but in non-standard chambers, when that bullet weight was the norm. None of this means anything to a typical deerstalker - it's like saying an out and out racing or rally saloon that outwardly looks like something in the local car dealership has relevance to a family motorist's choice of a new steed.

Yes, the comment that "the 308 is fast than the 6.5CM leaving the barrel" raised my eyebrows a bit as well. Especially with hunting ammo.

 

[Manu]

6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester Debate Settled

Here's what you need to know about the strengths and weaknesses of the 6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester so you can choose the right one. The better choice is

thebiggamehuntingblog.com

Up to 300 yards, the 308 out-energizes the Creedmoor with similar ballistics;

then the 6.5 does things better and is less affected by the wind.

Being that 90% of hunting shots are at 200 yards or less, I prefer the 308

Best regards

 

[Thomas Gordon]

Maybe best not to read into it too much and go with what takes your fancy … both will do the same job, and they will both have their positives and negatives! Most people will recommend what they have and tell you it’s the best!

 

[Laurie]

(0.298" across the lands; 0.3085-3086 across the grooves v the standard SAAMI 0.300/0.3080" specs)

That should read 0.3075-76 groove diameter, not the one I quoted that is bigger than SAAMI.

 

[25 Sharps]

6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester Debate Settled

Here's what you need to know about the strengths and weaknesses of the 6.5 Creedmoor vs 308 Winchester so you can choose the right one. The better choice is

thebiggamehuntingblog.com

Up to 300 yards, the 308 out-energizes the Creedmoor with similar ballistics;

then the 6.5 does things better and is less affected by the wind.

Being that 90% of hunting shots are at 200 yards or less, I prefer the 308

Best regards

Inside 200 yards the difference in energy makes no difference, both have more than enough to cleanly kill UK species.

It really is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other, if you don’t reload then ammo availability for the .308 will always be better with the option to use cheaper Milsurp for cheap practice. That’s about the only difference

 

[sauer]

Are you recoil sensitive ?
If unsure or a tad then 6.5

But main consideration for me now would be availability of ammo / consumables etc

308 might be “meh” to many bit there’s reason it’s STILL
On the go in reasonable numbers
Cost
Barrel life
Availability of ammo factory and for homeloader

I used to be very caliber oriented bit now realizing it’s all much n such and as long as you know your rifle / ammo / drops …… does it matter ?

Paul