Barrel tuners I mean probably almost completely useless

Browning X Bolt 2 Cashback
My experience of using a rubber bung tuner /barrel dampener is very positive.

I have a Bergara BA14 in .243. I had bought some ppu 90gr ammo and proceeded to shoot a group that was about 10 in across. From memory it was about 6 or 7 shots. As a reference Sako 90gr ammo was just under an inch.

I think the rubber bungs are made by limbsaver and I had bought a couple to try after watching Richard Uttings video on them. I popped one on and shot the ppu again.

3 shots into just under an inch. No one at the range could believe it. I have never moved it since as I consider it to be in the right spot.

Here is the weird thing though, it didn't really change the Sako group size post fitting.

So for me they work. Pulling a 10inch scatter gun group to just under an inch is pretty dramatic. Plus as I think Miki mentioned earlier they protect the end of your rifle if you want to lean it against something.
 
My old rifles have been singing the same tunes for years with a slight difference in loudness and flame length out of the barrel........bang bang bang.

Seriously arent we deer stalkers? I believe we should put far more effort into the actual art of stalking rather than frigging about trying to extract more out of our stalking rifles. First step ..get closer...a deer head is remarkably large @ 25 yards and when you do that will ye be thinking "hope this **** is tuned" ha ha
 
John Gryphon said:
My old rifles have been singing the same tunes for years with a slight difference in loudness and flame length out of the barrel........bang bang bang.

Seriously arent we deer stalkers? I believe we should put far more effort into the actual art of stalking rather than frigging about trying to extract more out of our stalking rifles. First step ..get closer...a deer head is remarkably large @ 25 yards and when you do that will ye be thinking "hope this **** is tuned" ha ha
Click to expand...
Haha 😂 mint 👍
 
No comments on Alan Maughan’s article then?
Group size or not.
This is a man who won the UK 1000m bench rest competition in his first year with a rifle he built from scratch with a stock with recoil tunability that he designed and built.

Who designed and built a tuning moderator that does work and will shrink groups whether they be three or five or ten.
The targets shown are just some of the many I have seen that show group size changing depending on tuner position.


It has no place in a stalking rifle.
They do have a place in target applications, especially bench rear where the biggest variable has almost been taken out of the equation.

Statistics are all very well but you do not have a binary input of only one variable when shooting a stalking rifle in an outdoor range.
More often than not the shooter will impact the group size, even more so when they have just put four in the same hole.

We have all chased that perfect group.
Even when shooting single rounds on new targets each time, the shooter can observe and influence the group.

Tuners can allow shooters to change a single variable very quickly.
You can tune a known load to a new location/elevation/pressure/temperature etc when competing round the world as many do

Not everything can be or needs to be statistically proven to be of value to the person using it.
Even more so in field conditions

When we did the moderator test back in 2017/8 we only did five rounds through each mod and five unmoderated for a baseline peak dB

Someone could argue thats not enough to be statistically relevant.
But it is enough to draw a clear conclusion from on which moderator was the quietest and which impacted recoil the most.

Same goes for 5 shot groups.
5 shots can show accuracy of a load or rifle.
10 shots can show the accuracy and precision of the shooter.

And if you see a smaller group size and go out shooting with the mental state of a man with the best possible load for that rifle, THAT is as relevant (arguably more so) as heading out with the actual statistically proven best load for that rifle.
 
Edinburgh Rifles said:
No comments on Alan Maughan’s article then?
Group size or not.
This is a man who won the UK 1000m bench rest competition in his first year with a rifle he built from scratch with a stock with recoil tunability that he designed and built.

Who designed and built a tuning moderator that does work and will shrink groups whether they be three or five or ten.
The targets shown are just some of the many I have seen that show group size changing depending on tuner position.


It has no place in a stalking rifle.
They do have a place in target applications, especially bench rear where the biggest variable has almost been taken out of the equation.

Statistics are all very well but you do not have a binary input of only one variable when shooting a stalking rifle in an outdoor range.
More often than not the shooter will impact the group size, even more so when they have just put four in the same hole.

We have all chased that perfect group.
Even when shooting single rounds on new targets each time, the shooter can observe and influence the group.

Tuners can allow shooters to change a single variable very quickly.
You can tune a known load to a new location/elevation/pressure/temperature etc when competing round the world as many do

Not everything can be or needs to be statistically proven to be of value to the person using it.
Even more so in field conditions

When we did the moderator test back in 2017/8 we only did five rounds through each mod and five unmoderated for a baseline peak dB

Someone could argue thats not enough to be statistically relevant.
But it is enough to draw a clear conclusion from on which moderator was the quietest and which impacted recoil the most.

Same goes for 5 shot groups.
5 shots can show accuracy of a load or rifle.
10 shots can show the accuracy and precision of the shooter.

And if you see a smaller group size and go out shooting with the mental state of a man with the best possible load for that rifle, THAT is as relevant (arguably more so) as heading out with the actual statistically proven best load for that rifle.
Click to expand...
I'll bite...

The physics seems plausible enough, and there appears to be some good evidence that they work, though really only with highly specialised rigs where all other variables have been controlled.

I dispute that anyone firing 3 round groups will be able to use them effectively, though. 5 rounds - borderline. If the effects are large, then yes, you probably can detect changes. I don't really understand why everyone is fixated on 5 as the appropriate number in shooting, when 6 is the sample size generally advised in statistics.

I can absolutely see a tuner being a very useful tool once you've calibrated it to your rifle. Do all the testing, establish the settings required under different conditions (which will require proper sample sizes), then adjust to conditions. Much like dialling a scope.
 
Mungo said:
I'll bite...

The physics seems plausible enough, and there appears to be some good evidence that they work, though really only with highly specialised rigs where all other variables have been controlled.

I dispute that anyone firing 3 round groups will be able to use them effectively, though. 5 rounds - borderline. If the effects are large, then yes, you probably can detect changes. I don't really understand why everyone is fixated on 5 as the appropriate number in shooting, when 6 is the sample size generally advised in statistics.

I can absolutely see a tuner being a very useful tool once you've calibrated it to your rifle. Do all the testing, establish the settings required under different conditions (which will require proper sample sizes), then adjust to conditions. Much like dialling a scope.
Click to expand...
One round up the spout and four under the bolt that is a very common configuration for stalking rifles.
Regards
JCS
 
Mungo said:
I can absolutely see a tuner being a very useful tool once you've calibrated it to your rifle. Do all the testing, establish the settings required under different conditions (which will require proper sample sizes), then adjust to conditions. Much like dialling a scope.
Click to expand...
I would say you can find in most instances a node wide enough so you don’t need to change for ‘normal’ environmentals, at least in my experience. I do think if you suddenly went to a drastically different climate (ie competed abroad in serious heat/massive altitude etc) it’d be worth retuning a bit to allow for it.

Ben
 
I’ve made barrel tuners that replace the rear bushing on my wildcat evo moderators on both my current stalking rifles. In my limited experience with them, tuners change the shape and size of groups. I like to think I can shoot well enough and have enough experience to be satisfied that they work for me. I like my rifles to be as accurate as I can make them, others are much less fussy about the levels of accuracy they strive for.

I’ve read Brian Litz’s viewpoint on them. I’m not sure I agree with either his findings or his testing methods. There’s a current thread on accurate shooter about his publishings on cf tuners with comments from a lot of world class shooters and rifle builders that also disagree with his findings. There are a lot of top shooters who wouldn’t waste their time with them if there wasn’t something to be gained from having them on their barrels.

Shooting is a fickle sport. Science and statistics aren’t always necessary to validate whether something works or not. Tony Boyer could tell if a barrel was going to shoot for him within 9 x 3 shot groups. That’s statistically insignificant in terms of sample size but it’s hard to argue against his ability or records.

Pick and chose what works for you. Happy shooting 😁


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I installed a starik tuner on my Bleiker .22 competition rifle, having batch tested with Lapua center X and the groups were bad ( competition grade bad) with a lot of vertical stringing. As the barrel had only done 25k should have been a lot better.
Went away ordered a tuner and within an hour on the range , rifle clamped into a recoiling rig massively reduced the group size.
This takes paitence and a fair bit of ammo.
There were two nodes of improved group size. Chose the smallest and fine tuned on that.

Move forward two years re tested with RWS R50 10 batches of ammo all groups under 13mm and all very round with no vertical strings, smallest group 12.2mm

Rifle shoots incredibly well out the shoulder

So In answer do barrel tunners work, most definitely on rimfires.

Nick
 
If someone is limited to factory ammo with a consistent muzzle velocity, a barrel tuner might be worth a try if not too cumbersome.
 
John Gryphon said:
My old rifles have been singing the same tunes for years with a slight difference in loudness and flame length out of the barrel........bang bang bang.

Seriously arent we deer stalkers? I believe we should put far more effort into the actual art of stalking rather than frigging about trying to extract more out of our stalking rifles. First step ..get closer...a deer head is remarkably large @ 25 yards and when you do that will ye be thinking "hope this **** is tuned" ha ha
Click to expand...
Some people on this forum are interested in all aspects of firearms use, not just stalking. I don’t think that it’s unreasonable to talk about it here, if it doesn’t interest you just scroll on?
 
Conh said:
Some people on this forum are interested in all aspects of firearms use, not just stalking. I don’t think that it’s unreasonable to talk about it here, if it doesn’t interest you just scroll on?
Click to expand...
Jawohl Herr Direktor!
Meanwhile i will get back to stalking a lot of deer...how about you?
 
cjm1066 said:
Browning and I believe Winchester offered them as a factory fitted option, you probably blinked when they were sold.
Click to expand...
Was called the boss system. Have one and it was a muzzle break that could be screwed to different positions. Good job for accuracy but very noisey.
 
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