Barrel tuners I mean probably almost completely useless

[Utectok]

The more I think about it the more I am beginning to think barrel tuners are completely (well nearly) useless.
To put this in context I’ve never used one but the way I’ve seen them used is with a series of 3-2 shot groups the an adjustment, which clearly means nothing. Also the adjustable thread moves the tuner almost nowhere…
I do think a barrel weight might help groups in some cases… that sort of makes sense to me but I’ve not seen any real good testing of tuners that proves anything. I believe Brian Litz did some testing and came to the same conclusion but I’ve not read his book?
What’s the SD massive think?

 

[Overlay]

Never heard of it to be honest, but I'm all ears, interesting thread, look forward to the input

 

[Andyquadra]

There's another thread about the rubber ring barrel tuner on here recently

 

[enfieldspares]

I've never used one but barrel harmonics do affect grouping, that's fact. It's why hanging sixteen ounces of bayonet off the muzzle of a rifle alters the point of aim. I think the idea is that you slide the rubber ring type weight up and down the barrel until it dampens the oscillation wave? Some Browning rifles came with them? Personally it isn't pleasing to the eye and so I wouldn't use one. But I'm odd in then preferring even my 'scoped rifles wore a proper set of iron sights. Which also no doubt were not best for barrel harmonics I suppose?

 

[Malxwal]

Take up the matter with folk who routinely install them on completion target rifles rather than stalking rifles ?

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

They work
The tuner doesn’t need to weigh a lot and doesn’t need to move much
One full revolution can go from node to node

They are remarkably good at making a average group better than average without changing charge level or oal

The rubber butt plug on the barrel is a basic product to replicate the harmonic changing effect of a proper treaded and graduated one

 

[Utectok]

They work
The tuner doesn’t need to weigh a lot and doesn’t need to move much
One full revolution can go from node to node

They are remarkably good at making a average group better than average without changing charge level or oal

The rubber butt plug on the barrel is a basic product to replicate the harmonic changing effect of a proper treaded and graduated one

Can you prove that? I mean with statistically large enough groups? If so I’d be all ears? If you’re talking comparing 2-3-5 shot groups I’m afraid that’s pretty meaningless

 

[Miki]

When the sudden build up of pressure starts to move the bullet into the barrel the shockwave creates a 'wave' of energy that causes the barrel to flex, the whole gun moves. You (the shooter) and the stock absorb some of this movement but the unsupported barrel continues to waggle around as the bullet move through it.
You don't mind the barrel waggle (technical term) if the mid point (ie it's niether up, down, left or right) coincides with the bullets exit relative to PoA
You can (to a degree) time this by increasing or decreasing the jump so that the bullet arrives in that 'sweet spot'.

Or you can fit a barrel tuner, a weight that damps the barrels harmonic resonance/waggle so that it's all central when the bullet exits.
Moving the weight to the back or fore will effect timing of the damping effect and tighten or open the grouping as the waggle will be timed to the bullets exit. As @Edinburgh Rifles points out, it doesn't take a lot.

I use rubber butt plugs .... they are designed to damp the harmonics ... do they make a big difference to my groupings, possibly not, but they are great for resting the barrel against things and I think it heps, which is also beneficial.

 

[DVS1]

Can you prove that? I mean with statistically large enough groups? If so I’d be all ears? If you’re talking comparing 2-3-5 shot groups I’m afraid that’s pretty meaningless

Search YouTube for Erik Cortina.and his barrel tuners...if one was made ti accommodate the use of suppressors id be using one for sure

 

[borbal]

Here is an article I wrote about barrel tuning and 'positive compensation'. This was for a rimfire rifle, but there is no doubt that the principle can be applied to rifles of any calibre.

In the course of my research I did a lot of testing on barrel 'tuners' of various sorts. My conclusion was that while attaching a weight to the end of the barrel can influence how the rifle groups in a positive (and a negative) way, those tuners which are marketed with fine threads and micrometer graduations are designed for those with deep pockets and a similarly shallow understanding of statistics.

 

[Overlay]

Take up the matter with folk who routinely install them on completion target rifles rather than stalking rifles ?

Ah ah that's probably why I never heard of them before

 

[Stalker62]

...those tuners which are marketed with fine threads and micrometer graduations are designed for those with deep pockets and a similarly shallow understanding of statistics.

Love that.

On this theme.

I watched some of the long distance Black Powder boys once, lobbing in chunks of lead at 1,000 yards.
Vernier sights and 'cross-sticks' supports.

Long, long barrel rifles. They could work out the 'sweet spot' of their barrels by throwing some sort of talc over it and then tapping the barrel and "watching" the harmonics of that barrel in the talc.

They would then place this 'sweet spot' into the centre of their 'cross-sicks'.



Black Magic I have no doubt, but by Christ, those old boys could shoot.

 

[Smellydog]

In theory they were to help someone ring the most accuracy out of a box of ammo but in reality a person has to shoot so much ammo they may as well buy a few different loads or if a reloader find a good reload the conventional way, but do check the barrel is solid against the stock or well clear of the stock. Not a hairs thickness of gap!

 

[HonestJohn]

my vintage rifles would not appreciate any sort of rubber butt plugs I can assure you..

what's the world coming to!

 

[Smellydog]

my vintage rifles would not appreciate any sort of rubber butt plugs I can assure you..

what's the world coming to!

They'll be putting rainbow stickers on them next, and it'll be a creedmore just you see!

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Can you prove that? I mean with statistically large enough groups? If so I’d be all ears? If you’re talking comparing 2-3-5 shot groups I’m afraid that’s pretty meaningless

As DVS says, check out Eric cortina and his variant of a barrel tuner. He shows, on video, the different effect it has by turning it and you can physically see the group open and close.

It's a modern thing to the old rubber oring on the barrel and move it until it shoots it's best

 

[Len the dog]

This is all news to me so I tried Googling ‘rubber butt plugs’.

I think I’ll leave this thread now.

 

[tarponhead]

They'll be putting rainbow stickers on them next, and it'll be a creedmore just you see!

I hope the instructions are clear about where the rubber butt plug goes? In the rifle and not the shooter- or maybe both, if that works better? I assume case lube is also involved, somewhere?
All very confusing… Regulated by Fultons - is that a similar thing?

 

[cjm1066]

Browning and I believe Winchester offered them as a factory fitted option, you probably blinked when they were sold.

 

[Utectok]

Here is an article I wrote about barrel tuning and 'positive compensation'. This was for a rimfire rifle, but there is no doubt that the principle can be applied to rifles of any calibre.

In the course of my research I did a lot of testing on barrel 'tuners' of various sorts. My conclusion was that while attaching a weight to the end of the barrel can influence how the rifle groups in a positive (and a negative) way, those tuners which are marketed with fine threads and micrometer graduations are designed for those with deep pockets and a similarly shallow understanding of statistics.

That’s exactly what I think