Barrel tuners I mean probably almost completely useless

[Utectok]

As DVS says, check out Eric cortina and his variant of a barrel tuner. He shows, on video, the different effect it has by turning it and you can physically see the group open and close.

It's a modern thing to the old rubber oring on the barrel and move it until it shoots it's best

Eric cortina never shoots big enough groups while “tuning” to prove they are anything more than an idea.

 

[Utectok]

Search YouTube for Erik Cortina.and his barrel tuners...if one was made ti accommodate the use of suppressors id be using one for sure

Eric is selling snake oil in my view his “tutorial “ on how to use them show no evidence of their effectiveness statistically

 

[Utectok]

Here is the great man spouting wisdom about meaningless 3 shot groups which could very well be generated by natural variation from
A single load.

 

[Utectok]

And here is the reason why three shot groups look different but can be from the same load

“Mind blow” I mean it’s all made up self deception!!!??

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

 

[Len the dog]

Whenever I see Eric Cortina’s name mentioned I am reminded of the stoning scene from The life of Brian. Dare to utter his name in anything but a reverential way and expect to be stoned.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Eric cortina never shoots big enough groups while “tuning” to prove they are anything more than an idea.

The fact you can see the group open and close over multiple shots says all you need to know. They did a budget rifle series and fitted one during that as an example of what can be done with a out the box rifle. Check it out

 

[Utectok]

The fact you can see the group open and close over multiple shots says all you need to know. They did a budget rifle series and fitted one during that as an example of what can be done with a out the box rifle. Check it out

Thank you I have watched these videos… a fun project but I wonder if the barrel “wieght” has more effect than the tuning? Groups appear to open and close with three shot groups even if you did nothing at all that is statistically guaranteed. There is absolutely no proof of concept on any of Eric cortina’s videos whatever rifle he puts them on. Honestly I’m not saying they don’t work but I have yet to see any evidence that they do. Look @Mungo post in the above link he shows random small groups are easily interpreted as having a pattern when in fact there is none.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Here is an article I wrote about barrel tuning and 'positive compensation'. This was for a rimfire rifle, but there is no doubt that the principle can be applied to rifles of any calibre.

In the course of my research I did a lot of testing on barrel 'tuners' of various sorts. My conclusion was that while attaching a weight to the end of the barrel can influence how the rifle groups in a positive (and a negative) way, those tuners which are marketed with fine threads and micrometer graduations are designed for those with deep pockets and a similarly shallow understanding of statistics.

Agree. I believe that there should be two tuners distributed along the barrel. I look forward to someone using a Smith chart to calculate the correct position of the two tuners.
Regards
JCS

 

[Bavarianbrit]

We were on a visit to the USA and called into the Trinidad school of trades gunsmithing course, the head allowed us to stay there the whole day and one of the lectures we sat through was about these Browning adjusters sadly I cannot remember the details other than the lecturer did say that they worked.

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

Okay I’ll stick my neck on the line here.

I have an EC tuner brake, I swear by it for use on my match rifle.

I bought it after I had started using a muzzle brake in preference to a moderator for PRS style competitions - this gave me a variety of advantages: a more instant recoil impulse, much less mirage etc. It did however cause me a slight problem in that due to my load being worked up with a moderator when I changed to the brake rather than every group being sub 0.3MOA they were all 0.6-0.75MOA, this didn’t hamper me too much, but I felt I was seeing my group size at distance losing me hits if my wind call wasn’t 100% centred, rather than having my group be minute as I was used to and getting away with my wind call being slightly off centre.

This lead to me buying an EC tuner brake to try, looking to be able to use a already extensively proven load and just optimise it to ‘match’ the mods centre of mass on the end of the muzzle.

Now yes I appreciate a few good groups doesn’t tell you it’s categorically worked (based on the stats thread I don’t think anyone can ever prove any load is 100% this accurate or that accurate), but I can vouch over 50-100 rounds shot as groups on paper including cold bore it hasn’t shot over 0.3MOA since tuning (with some pretty decent groups in there too) and I’ve noticed the groups at distance seem to be much smaller and more consistent. This may be in some way placebo effect but I do truly believe the work, although I found they took a little more time to set up properly and find the middle of the node than they may be advertised.

A few of the groups with the tuner below:

 

[Twodogs]

Lots of scepticism here about the effectiveness, or otherwise of barrel tuners.

I shoot competition .22 and tuners do make a difference, perhaps only a slight difference, but that slight is enough to win or lose a competition. One of the problems is that many people do not understand tuners and do not persist with the tuning process thereby not achieving the best possible results.

In an ideal world if every projectile had exactly the same velocity characteristics from the point of ignition to leaving the barrel then a tuner would be of no benefit, however this is not the case especially in .22. CF loaders often try to achieve exactly the same effect, consistency, by tuning their loads, this works.

I currently shoot two different batches of RWS R50, one is quoted as having a m/v of 333 m/s and the other 328 m/s, and yes I adjust the tuner between batches as it does make a difference in this case.

In the picture below/attached you will see the effects of the tuner at different settings. The numbers at the side are just the tuner settings. Each group is five rounds, not three. As you go down the sheet you will notice less vertical spread in the groups. Tuners are often quoted as making groups more rounded.

Works for me.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Fill your boots:

K

 

[DVS1]

Eric is selling snake oil in my view his “tutorial “ on how to use them show no evidence of their effectiveness statistically

I think the 6.5 'Needmore' series probably shows best their effectiveness, never used one of these but can certainly follow the logic. Have used the rubber butt plug type and did notice groups open up and shrink when moved along the barrel

 

[Gameking]

Richard Utting did a piece on this a while ago :

 

[David78b]

Love that.



On this theme.



I watched some of the long distance Black Powder boys once, lobbing in chunks of lead at 1,000 yards.

Vernier sights and 'cross-sticks' supports.



Long, long barrel rifles. They could work out the 'sweet spot' of their barrels by throwing some sort of talc over it and then tapping the barrel and "watching" the harmonics of that barrel in the talc.



They would then place this 'sweet spot' into the centre of their 'cross-sicks'.







Black Magic I have no doubt, but by Christ, those old boys could shoot.



Could you put the video up would be interested to see.

 

[Lateral]

The more I think about it the more I am beginning to think barrel tuners are completely (well nearly) useless.
To put this in context I’ve never used one but the way I’ve seen them used is with a series of 3-2 shot groups the an adjustment, which clearly means nothing. Also the adjustable thread moves the tuner almost nowhere…
I do think a barrel weight might help groups in some cases… that sort of makes sense to me but I’ve not seen any real good testing of tuners that proves anything. I believe Brian Litz did some testing and came to the same conclusion but I’ve not read his book?
What’s the SD massive think?

If we accept that just 0.2gn of powder, or a 0.002” change in OAL can make a dramatic difference in group size, why would you question a change in barrel harmonics will do the same thing ?

 

[jcampbellsmith]

If we accept that just 0.2gn of powder, or a 0.002” change in OAL can make a dramatic difference in group size, why would you question a change in barrel harmonics will do the same thing ?

I don't accept the powder or seating changes can make a difference, unless I can prove it statistically. Hence I only fired one type of bullet in the entire life of one of my 260 Rems.
Regards
JCS

 

[Pete1774]

One for the gadget freaks I think. Tune up on a warm summer day with one type of ammo.... but what do you do on a cold morning, deer in your sights and a new box of ammo? A tuner could make your groups worse in that situation.

 

[HandB]

I am just an amateur yet can get decent sub MOA groups without a tuner just by systematic load development, so don't need a tuner. More serious pro shooters like Keith aka Winning in the Wind are abandoning tuners as they are not worth the cost and hassle:

 

[Twodogs]

I am just an amateur yet can get decent sub MOA groups without a tuner just by systematic load development, so don't need a tuner. More serious pro shooters like Keith aka Winning in the Wind are abandoning tuners as they are not worth the cost and hassle:

CF shooters. Delve in to the murky depth of RF and you will find something quite different. Systematic load development is just attempting to achieve the very same outcome as a tuner. Unfortunately with RF you don't have the luxury of being able to hand load.

A tuner may, only may, be of benefit to a CF user using factory loaded rounds that might lack the consistency of home loaded rounds. You have to ask the question as to whether the consistency gain is worth the hassle? probably not.