NV or thermal, bolt on or complete unit.

[chr1s]

Hi Everyone, a question that has without doubt been discussed to the enth degree.

I'm looking at options for my 22-250 and possibly the HMR. Long range bunnies and foxes. Mostly arable but some live stock.

I've looked at Pard units, but what scope with what unit? Or do I just buy a dedicated scope?

Then add the same thoughts around thermal, as it seems pulsar and other brands are offering clear images out to good distances, day or night, for a more reasonable price.

2nd hand or new again, lots of good kit around.

I'm interested in people's thoughts on this subject. I fear with my main permission now asking for 'less lamp' its only a question of time before it's no lamp.

Being in Wiltshire I'm not sure if there is anywhere I could go, that would allow me see/try half this kit first hand to help make a decision?!

Sorry to drag out such a overly discussed subject. But my mind is ready to melt!

Atb and thanks in advance

Chris

 

[mealiejimmy]

If you're going "lampless" how do you intend to spot the foxes and bunnies you want to shoot?
Waving a rifle around with an NV or thermal scope on it using it as a spotter isn't generally regarded as very safe, so I suggest your first purchase is a thermal spotter.
Unless money is not a real problem then the cost of buying a thermal spotter will leave you with less funds for something to mount on your 22-250.
The cheapest option is an NV rear add-on like a PARD NV007 - but the scope already on your rifle will need to be suitable to get the best out of a rear add-on.
If you can afford a dedicated NV scope then the main choices for a tube type NV scope are:
a. Pulsar Digex C50
b. HIK Alpex A50
c. PARD DS35 (non rangefinder version)
All 3 of them will do what you want with the PARD being the best for longer ranges and either of the other 2 better for shorter ranges
If you have not used a thermal spotter before I would not recommend buying a thermal scope right away because you need to learn to positively identify your quarry with thermal and that takes practice.
IMHO, going straight to a thermal scope from the lamp poses too many risks of shooting things you didn't mean to shoot

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Len the dog]

Using a handheld thermal spotter is a game changer, if you’re not using a lamp then that should be your first priority.

 

[Bo Diddley]

I'm sure some kind SD members in your area will offer to demonstrate their equipment.

You will end up with dozens of different answers and probably disappear up your own confusion as a result!

Listen to Bruce

 

[Foxyboy43]

Using a handheld thermal spotter is a game changer, if you’re not using a lamp then that should be your first priority.

Spot on! A thermal spotter will transform your night shooting - certainly has mine and teamed with a cheap Hawke and a Pard 007 on the .17hmr and Pard 008P on the .222 they are a dream team. For longer range 150+ an additional IR will let both do whatever you want.
Good luck.

 

[chr1s]

Thanks guys, already a lot of good usable info. A PARD does seem to keep coming up top. Why does the older model (007) seem to be paired with cheaper scopes? I have a Hawke on my HMR, a Zeiss on the 22-250, so not compatible for one unit I presume.

Thanks again chaps, always some helpful to have such a good knowledge base on SD.

Atb

Chris

 

[Qwertyzmate]

Thanks guys, already a lot of good usable info. A PARD does seem to keep coming up top. Why does the older model (007) seem to be paired with cheaper scopes? I have a Hawke on my HMR, a Zeiss on the 22-250, so not compatible for one unit I presume.

Thanks again chaps, always some helpful to have such a good knowledge base on SD.

Atb

Chris

Lens coating quality is important, but contradictory to what you might initially think.

Higher quality coatings on lenses block out some of the light spectrum that the N V need's (probably a better explanation but I'm not that clued up with the science)

Cheap coatings work best for NV add-ons.

 

[Foxyboy43]

This will let you have an idea of what you see in darkness at about 130yds with Pard 008P and additional IR but note the footage/picture is of much lesser quality than what you actually see live. If you want whatsapp video footage pm me your mobile..

 

[DVS1]

Spot with thermal and shoot with nv is how I do mine. Pard007s with IR laser for extended range and clarity plus you still have your day glass optic if desired (a flexible package).

I've not gone thermal rifle scope route and prefer my flexible rig.

If your ever Surrey way give me a nudge and you can have a gander through my bits n bobs

 

[Tazz]

Spot with thermal and shoot with nv is how I do mine. Pard007s with IR laser for extended range and clarity plus you still have your day glass optic if desired (a flexible package).

I've not gone thermal rifle scope route and prefer my flexible rig.

If your ever Surrey way give me a nudge and you can have a gander through my bits n bobs

Another vote for this option. As it’s your first move in the NV combine the two, a hand held Thermal Spotter and digital NV scope with decent IR torch. This way you get two “ Versions” to identify the target rather than one, easy to make a mistake in the early days using a single system. Lots of second hand spotters around and you can get a new quality NV unit under £1K

 

[Shrike]

May have been said earlier on in the thread, but if budget is tight like it is for myself.
I have a pard 007v combined with hawke vantage

I use the pard separate from the scope to spot and then attach to rifle to shoot.
This works well for the way I shoot which involves shooting rabbits from stationary position with tripod.
Yet to try out on foxes, I can imagine having a dedicated thermal or nv spotter would be useful as they don’t tend to sit in the same place long like rabbits do.

 

[Acm]

Recently took this route myself, bought a pulsar axion thermal spotter and an alpex nigbt scope. Over the moon with both. Been on the rifle a month and had 6 foxes with it already. As a livestock farmer I consider the scope has already paid for itself.

 

[gelert]

The beauty of an add on unit is that it can be switched and stuck onto most of your scopes/rifles provided they have parallax adjustment.
Pard is the cheapest sub £400ish, Vulpine and the Clive ward are also good units at around £600-700.
I have been using the Clive Ward for a number of years, having taken numerous foxes, rabbits and on the air rifle for ratting. I have no complaints. With a good Ir easily see foxes to 300yrds.
If you dont have a suitable scope add another £200-300.

You may find that a dedicated night vision rig hik or pulsar might be a better option when you start adding things up, then you'll need quick release mounts to swap between rifles.
Having a look through a few units would also be beneficial.

The nightvision and thermal game is changing every second, I saw some unbelievable quality gear at the game fair for not alot of money that never seem to get mentioned.

 

[kenbro]

There's a 'Night Vidion' evening in Wrexham on the 25th of this month but the miles might be too many from Wiltshire.
Ken.

 

[Smellydog]

I got a little sytong add on for the few times I need NV. It's fantastic and I found the controls easier than the pard 007 unit I tried.
I have the 12mm and you could with the built in ir shoot to 200yds. But I can also shoot a rat at 5yds. All through a hawk vantage side focus.

 

[Len the dog]

The difference between using a thermal spotter and an NV unit for spotting is that you can see them when they’re stationary and partially hidden.
I was out on the foxes and one could sense that I was there as I was stood out in the open but it wasn’t exactly sure. It was hiding behind a tree with just its ears and eyes showing through the long grass. I stood motionless and watched it until it eventually felt it was safe enough to move, through the NV I couldn’t pick it out even though I knew where it was.
When it eventually moved I couldn’t clearly see and identify it through the NV.
If I hadn’t had thermal I simply wouldn’t have known it was there.

 

[Polar Lynx]

IMHO thermal is the way to go. Superior in most situations although NV may supply a more distinct picture.

A bit of a hassle but a thermal scope can also be used as a free spotter. Needs QR and rail on rifle but no big thing.
Such a budget solution works best when hunting from high stand which may give you a bit more time vs free scouting.
Main problem with thermal is 'getting hooked factor'. Expensive trap ...

 

[mealiejimmy]

Thanks guys, already a lot of good usable info. A PARD does seem to keep coming up top. Why does the older model (007) seem to be paired with cheaper scopes? I have a Hawke on my HMR, a Zeiss on the 22-250, so not compatible for one unit I presume.

Thanks again chaps, always some helpful to have such a good knowledge base on SD.

Atb

Chris

In general, rear NV add-ons (including all the various PARD 007 models) tend to work better with cheaper scopes because the lens coatings in those scopes allow the IR used to illuminate the target to pass through them better than the lens coatings used on top end scopes (Zeiss, Swaro, S&B) which are optimised for the blue light which predominates at dawn and dusk
If your Hawke scope has some form of focus adjustment, either AO or side focus, it will probably work OK with the PARD
I'm less sure about the Zeiss scope on your 22-250.
It might be OKish, but unlikely to be better than that
The other feature that improves performance with the PARD is a low base magnification.
Most PARDs (i.e the 16mm version) magnify what you see in the reticle by about x1.3, so the overall magnification of the setup (scope + PARD) increases by a factor of x1.3 and the field of view narrows accordingly
So, if you have a 6-24x50 scope and stick a PARD on the back of it, you effectively have an 8-32x50 scope and the small field of view will have you spending a lot of time and much frustration just trying to find the target with the PARD
Scopes with base magnifications of x4 or less work best with the PARD.


Cheers

Bruce

 

[Spikelet]

May have been said earlier on in the thread, but if budget is tight like it is for myself.
I have a pard 007v combined with hawke vantage

I use the pard separate from the scope to spot and then attach to rifle to shoot.
This works well for the way I shoot which involves shooting rabbits from stationary position with tripod.
Yet to try out on foxes, I can imagine having a dedicated thermal or nv spotter would be useful as they don’t tend to sit in the same place long like rabbits do.

I used this method for about a year and then picked up an Axion XM30F which has transformed my night shooting. The thermal is picking foxes up that the Pard alone would struggle to see.
A Pard NV007 remains attached to a Hawke Sidewinder 30 SF 4-16x50 (works really well with the Pard) so no faffing about trying to reattach it in the dark

 

[Len the dog]

When it eventually moved I couldn’t clearly see and identify it through the NV.

Bloody phone, I meant COULD clearly see & identify.