Pheasant shoot questions.

[scotch_egg]

I know this is a deer stalking forum but I’m having a conversation and as know nothing about pheasants got onto artificial feeding cost.

So how many tons of wheat would be expected to be put down for 3500 pheasants for a season?

Also just for those that do run a syndicate how much ground rent is average for say 1000 acres to run a shoot?

How many birds would you expect to shoot on a day with putting 3500 pheasants down? 10 days.

 

[kes]

From my memory - to be updated by others
We used to buy 8-10 tons of wheat for more or less the number of pheasants you quote and shoot every weekend during the season - results below are based on this fact.
Average ground rent 5-10 years ago used to be £1-2 per acre.
Shooting numbers is a bit like a 'normal' curve not too many for the first 1-2 days. Then a declining average Overall 40% is a good return for a shoot where birds can wander - sometimes as low as 35% if disturbance cannot be controlled.
I would therefore expect with 3500 down and 10 days shooting some early days at 200 upwards. late days if you are lucky at about 100 head so overall.

5 @200, 5 @ 140= 1500 this gives a 42% return which is good.
It is not an absolute science but figures above are a 'reasonable guide'.

 

[enfieldspares]

It is difficult to actually answer any of this with exactness. There are many. many variables.

The amount of wheat put down will depend on what natural food the birds can find, what the weather is like, and a great deal on how many bids are shot. Plus of course if as well as being eaten by your birds the wheat put down is feeding the local squirrel population.

Ground rent again will vary on demand for shooting lets in that area, the type of ground if it is less (or more) desirable that other locally available parcels of land and what, at the end of the day the "opposition" that is other syndicates are prepared to bid locally.

How many birds a day depends not only on the skill of the guns that you put the birds over but also your ability to put those birds over those guns. Do you dog in early before the day even begins, do you use stops? For if not by the time the first drive starts have you may already had leakage from your main coverts as the sun warms the morning.

Returns? Optimistically anything over a 35% return, that is birds shot as a percentage of birds put down is very good. So for ten days shooting you might expect an average of one hundred and twenty birds a day. More in the early season before the birds have started to wander and less as those bords that didn't wander get shot so each cover on each subsequent day has less residents left in it for your beating team to send over the guns.

Also, of course, if you are next to an estate that also shoots you "seem" to lose less birds whereas actually you have but in return some of their birds will have come on to your land.

You may of course be very unfortunate to have a neighbour who does shoot, but doesn't put birds down at all but has lovely warm bottomed woods that will draw your birds. Especially of that person puts feeders in those woods. So be aware of who is bordering your shoot!

 

[Pedro]

There's no specifics here. To take things one at a time and assuming you are buying your pheasants in as poults at around 7 weeks old:

1. Anything up to 6 tons of wheat per 1,000 pheasants! Depends on how quickly they are shot, how soon you put them on wheat from pellets, what other critters take advantage, what natural food is about, how many pheasants are predated or wander off never to return, even the weather has an effect on their appetite. Try to save on wheat and in the long run, some of the birds will desert you. Also provide as many feeders as feasible, a cock bird will try to monopolise a feeder for himself and his hareem. It's not realistic to provide feeders for all, but more rather than less.

2. Ground rent is such a difficult one to call. You might be lucky to pay nothing apart from a free gun to the owner and vermin control services. But it goes up on a sliding scale from there. Depends on the landowner, the type of land, what percentages of woods there are and probably many other factors.

3. Bag sizes? Another one that's hard to call due to all sorts of reasons. Let's say, for argument's sake you manage to shoot a third of the birds put down. So that's 1,150-ish. Let's also say you have 10 shoot days (because the maths is easier). You could look forward to shooting around 115 birds per day. But again, that will have so many variations. On a new shoot, that could be less until you get the lie of the land and know where they'll fly, some shoot days will produce more, some less, how well you've husbanded/dogged in your birds, how good the guns are, the topography, the weather. So many variables!

I think you need a season to be able to sort out most of those imponderables. Come February, you'll have a good idea and will likely do much better in year 2. As for paying guns and what to charge, assuming it's a friendly syndicate, it's not unreasonable to work out a cost for poults/feed assuming a minimal amount of wheat, with a proviso that, say in December you'll have a much better idea of how much you'll need buy for the rest of the season and can say to them that there may/may not be a surcharge then to take you through. That way, they'll feel they aren't being over-charged.

 

[Pedro]

Great minds....

 

[Brno2e]

Factor in around 5 tonne's of good quality grower pellets to get them off to a good start too, do not just put them on wheat. Pellets are not cheap.

You might want to do some research on how much it costs to construct release pens too, another significant cost.

As a part time keeper who does not get paid and putting down 750 birds a year I know what goes in to it in time and money. If you are putting down 3500 someone is going to be busy and should have some form of payment and a vehicle needs to considered possibly.

If it all goes well on the numbers you are talking about putting down you would expect around the 150 average mark for birds shot over 10 days but there is a heck of a lot that can alter that. Best of luck to you.

 

[jall55]

I think the figures are underestimating the wheat you will use

We put down 2300 pheasants
Have 6 tonne of growers
We then have got through 25 t of wheat - BUT I DO FEED ALL YEAR
Our birds came end of June
We will shoot circa 45 % this year - last was 50 %
We averaged 85 birds per shoot inc beaters day - walked up days - I think 150/200 will be a sensible number for you
Rent depends on the land - we own most but rent a small piece of circa 50 acres for £1200 - its not tye best land by a long shot - but its the access and the fact that i would not want anyone else on our boundary

Hope that helps

 

[VSS]

Ground rent (by which we mean sporting rights rent in this context) could be anything from £1/acre up to £20/acre per year, depending on location and whether or not you're taking over an established shoot.

 

[tim@tcs]

I use 5 to 8 ton of wheat after using up two ton of growers for 800 birds

They are well fed but we always run low by end of February

 

[jim_allen_uk]

What are people paying per ton of growers currently?

 

[jall55]

What are people paying per ton of growers currently?

Ours were 650 t

Wheat between 225 - 325 t last year

 

[Taff]

One thing you learn is you can never have enough food, cost of wheat depends on where you are buying from and quality, ground rent depends on type of ground and what it is used for, grass land as opposed to arable, can you plant cover crops ? What is the loss by doing this to the landlord ?

 

[tim@tcs]

We are blessed by the farm owners who don’t charge ground rent and the contract farmer who charges below market for our wheat assuming he remembers to charge at all!

 

[jall55]

Ours were 650 t

Wheat between 225 - 325 t last year

We also feed circa 2 t of sunflowers/rape/millet/wheat mix to the farmland and woodland birds - Helps hold the game birds too

Got 50 feeders in the trees now for them as well

 

[scotch_egg]

Thank you all for your contributions it has really given me an insight to what’s needed to run a pheasant shoot.

 

[jall55]

Thank you all for your contributions it has really given me an insight to what’s needed to run a pheasant shoot.

And also you need to be there everyday - twice a day early on

The above has only just scratched the surface - it is very rewarding but a labour of love

 

[scotch_egg]

I’ll not be taking on a pheasant shoot. Neither will my pal.

Deer stalking is far easier.

 

[enfieldspares]

And we didn't even get on to the topic of predator control, trap lines, checking traps, cutting rides, building release pens (and keeping those pens predator proof) nor "gapes" and other diseases, tagging birds for useful returns assessment, etc., etc., and all of that!

 

[kes]

You could try DIY - people will pay about£1500-£2000 maybe more each to do the shoot work - build pens/feed etc If you charge upfront you will have the cash to pay for everything. I would happily pay £2000 a year to shoot locally on 12-15 days per year and work to make it happen.
All you need to do then is ENSURE no-one but you is in charge and that you deal with all payments - get them checked by an accountant at year end.
It can be good fun and would, potentially give you more ground to stalk over ?
All the best.

 

[User00040]

I’ll not be taking on a pheasant shoot. Neither will my pal.

Deer stalking is far easier.

Stalking on land next to a pheasant shoot = free pheasants