New 300 WSM all around rifle project, selective hunting in Italy

[randello88]

You cannot go on and choose a bullet based on weight, if you want long range terminal performance. That requires reasonable terminal velocity, i.e. good combination of muzzle velocity and BC (velocity retention).

168gr ABLR has better BC than 180gr regular AB. I've shot 200gr AB in 308 Tikka (same 1-11" twist) but only on range (got them at very good price). They stabilize OK, round holes and good accuracy at 150m, but I wouldn't use them on game where you want rather over- than understabilization. 190gr ABLR is .005" shorter and WSM has more velocity so you might get away with it.

I'd have suggested the dual load solution ("short range" in chamber and "long range" in pocket) but it requires either luck / very thorough load development (get away with single zero for both loads) or very very solid routine (remembering to change zero and return to original zero after the shot). If you go that route just duplicate your current 308 load for short range (assuming you're happy with it) and develop the long range load using suitable bullet and as much velocity you can get.

Some data points from my experience (these are personal opinions on what to use, I don't have any cull targets etc.)
- 165gr 30cal AB at 308Win velocity (MV 840m/s) will tear roe too badly sub 100m
- 900m/s terminal velocity is too much for fallow sized quarry, even if we drop down to 6.5mm
- 1000m/s or near terminal velocity is too much for fallow size, even dropping way down in caliber/weight

The dual solution makes sense but it would be absolutely necessary to account for the different zero of the lomg range ammo before shooting it and also this way sometimes changing from one cartridge to the other could cause a poi shift in comparison to the zero for that second ammo because of the different fouling in the barrel caused by the previous load. I have seen it.

I tend to reduce the things to think about to the minimum possible at the moment of the shot and focus on that so i will stick with a single load probably. But of course all this talking is secondary to field tests on rifle accuracy with certain loads

 

[randello88]

Yes the 165 SST made reliable pass throughs in my experience (MV was 2600ish).

That's interesting, so you never shot one at 300 wsm under 100 yards speeds. It would be interesting to see results of that

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

That's interesting, so you never shot one at 300 wsm under 100 yards speeds. It would be interesting to see results of that

No and nor do I intend to - I can guess what will happen, higher velocity very seldom equals lower damage.

Ben

 

[randello88]

No and nor do I intend to - I can guess what will happen, higher velocity very seldom equals lower damage.

Ben

That's true but i think people overestimate what a couple hundred feet/sec more can do, I don't think there would be so much difference to not intending to do such a shot. But i could be wrong

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

That's true but i think people overestimate what a couple hundred feet/sec more can do, I don't think there would be so much difference to not intending to do such a shot. But i could be wrong

I disagree - here’s an example, two roe deer shot with the same kind of bullet fired out of different rifles, one was going 3650 FPS, the other was at 3050 FPS (both muzzle velocities). These deer were both shot at around 100-150m.

3650 FPS MV


3050 FPS MV


As you can see 500-600 FPS can make a massive difference.
I won’t using the SSTs with my WSM because I know what will happen, my current loads drop near enough everything on the spot with sensible carcass damage - I see no need to destroy a carcass unnecessarily.

Ben

 

[Rsl]

That is very explanatory.

 

[Rsl]

Several years ago, I succumbed to the Magnum fever so popular in Spain and I purchased a 7 mm Remington Magnum Mauser M12, having in my mind the idea that that was required to hit hard and reach far. Nevertheless, after gaining more experience, the scales fell from my eyes and I realised I did not need that amount of recoil nor muzzle blast. In addition, the rifle was rather heavy and the ammunition was expensive. So to make a long story short, one of the best decisions I have ever made, was to part with that rifle and to replace it by an European classic 7x64 Brenneke. I have hunted with it roe deer, red deers, chamois, wild boar, Iberian Ibex, and mouflon. I love this calibre due to its versatility and its ballistics. It is a true all-round cartridge. In practical normal hunting situations I do not think you are going to find any difference between shooting game with a 7x64 or a Magnum. Furthermore, you can choose from a wide range of bullet weights. In my opinion, a Magnum calibre is unnecessary to hunt in Europe and it can be very destructive as well. There are more efficient options, achieving the same and burning less powder. For instance, a 270 Winchester (which I also own) is also a fair flat shooter without any doubt, showing magnum velocities. Anyways, the most important thing is to know your set-up and to practise until you feel comfortable and confident with it.

Regarding the choice of bullets, if using a lead bullet is not a problem and you want to use one single construction for everything, I would recommend a reliable Nosler Partition.

 

[randello88]

I disagree - here’s an example, two roe deer shot with the same kind of bullet fired out of different rifles, one was going 3650 FPS, the other was at 3050 FPS (both muzzle velocities). These deer were both shot at around 100-150m.

3650 FPS MV
View attachment 301481

3050 FPS MV
View attachment 301480

As you can see 500-600 FPS can make a massive difference.
I won’t using the SSTs with my WSM because I know what will happen, my current loads drop near enough everything on the spot with sensible carcass damage - I see no need to destroy a carcass unnecessarily.

Ben

That's reasonable. This pictures are not very easy to understand if you were not there though and it doesn’t look like the bullet impacted in the same place the animal. I have shot many, many roes and I have seen huge differences depending on the area hit with the same exact bullet. Of course 500 fps can make a big difference (500 is a lot!!) i was talking about 2-300. And to say if that first deer was destroyed in an unacceptable way for me i should see the wound better and the area where the bullet hit the animal!

 

[randello88]

Several years ago, I succumbed to the Magnum fever so popular in Spain and I purchased a 7 mm Remington Magnum Mauser M12, having in my mind the idea that that was required to hit hard and reach far. Nevertheless, after gaining more experience, the scales fell from my eyes and I realised I did not need that amount of recoil nor muzzle blast. In addition, the rifle was rather heavy and the ammunition was expensive. So to make a long story short, one of the best decisions I have ever made, was to part with that rifle and to replace it by an European classic 7x64 Brenneke. I have hunted with it roe deer, red deers, chamois, wild boar, Iberian Ibex, and mouflon. I love this calibre due to its versatility and its ballistics. It is a true all-round cartridge. In practical normal hunting situations I do not think you are going to find any difference between shooting game with a 7x64 or a Magnum. Furthermore, you can choose from a wide range of bullet weights. In my opinion, a Magnum calibre is unnecessary to hunt in Europe and it can be very destructive as well. There are more efficient options, achieving the same and burning less powder. For instance, a 270 Winchester (which I also own) is also a fair flat shooter without any doubt, showing magnum velocities. Anyways, the most important thing is to know your set-up and to practise until you feel comfortable and confident with it.

Regarding the choice of bullets, if using a lead bullet is not a problem and you want to use one single construction for everything, I would recommend a reliable Nosler Partition.

Partitions are generally pretty inaccurate and they have low BC so i won’t use them. Additionally i don't like how they work on roes at all, at least at 308 velocities. Not enough damage, too many animal running with hearth AND lungs damaged. 7x64 is a very good caliber, i agree, and it would probably serve me very well. Not same results though, these two cartridges are in two different categories, either one with its pros and cons. For shooting 500 meters the 300 wsm is definitely more adequate. For shorter distances i still prefer the 308 over the 7x64 for many reasons so for me 7x64 has no place.

 

[randello88]

I have thought about all we talked about and i think i will just buy another 308. Everytime i try to change caliber i always end up there.

I will limit ny shots at 400 meters, that's more than enough. I will use hornady sst 165 gr if my rifle will like them.

 

[Muir]

I have thought about all we talked about and i think i will just buy another 308. Everytime i try to change caliber i always end up there.

I will limit ny shots at 400 meters, that's more than enough. I will use hornady sst 165 gr if my rifle will like them.

For 300-400m why not? Try a 1-10 twist. A lot of large mule deer and Elk are killed with 308 in my area.~Muir

PS: SST's are a terrible bullet. Unpredictable wound channels. Massive damage or none at all. I have switched to Sierra Game king and Pro hunters in every chambering.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Several years ago, I succumbed to the Magnum fever so popular in Spain and I purchased a 7 mm Remington Magnum Mauser M12, having in my mind the idea that that was required to hit hard and reach far. Nevertheless, after gaining more experience, the scales fell from my eyes and I realised I did not need that amount of recoil nor muzzle blast. In addition, the rifle was rather heavy and the ammunition was expensive. So to make a long story short, one of the best decisions I have ever made, was to part with that rifle and to replace it by an European classic 7x64 Brenneke. I have hunted with it roe deer, red deers, chamois, wild boar, Iberian Ibex, and mouflon. I love this calibre due to its versatility and its ballistics. It is a true all-round cartridge. In practical normal hunting situations I do not think you are going to find any difference between shooting game with a 7x64 or a Magnum. Furthermore, you can choose from a wide range of bullet weights. In my opinion, a Magnum calibre is unnecessary to hunt in Europe and it can be very destructive as well. There are more efficient options, achieving the same and burning less powder. For instance, a 270 Winchester (which I also own) is also a fair flat shooter without any doubt, showing magnum velocities. Anyways, the most important thing is to know your set-up and to practise until you feel comfortable and confident with it.

Regarding the choice of bullets, if using a lead bullet is not a problem and you want to use one single construction for everything, I would recommend a reliable Nosler Partition.

I am getting drop on the spot all the boar that I shoot with my .270 Win since I began using factory S&B SSTs of 150 grains.

 

[randello88]

For 300-400m why not? Try a 1-10 twist. A lot of large mule deer and Elk are killed with 308 in my area.~Muir

PS: SST's are a terrible bullet. Unpredictable wound channels. Massive damage or none at all. I have switched to Sierra Game king and Pro hunters in every chambering.

Tell me more about those sst failures!

 

[randello88]

I am getting drop on the spot all the boar that I shoot with my .270 Win since I began using factory S&B SSTs of 150 grains.

Do you get a passthrough?

 

[Utectok]

I’m hoping you have fun whatever you do but after reading the descriptions of how you are using the rifle and your choice of calibre seems pretty Rambo. I can’t see why you need a 300win mag or something similar for sub 500m shots on live quarry. Maybe for griz and elk?
Anyway I’d say get an sweet shooting calibre than bucks the wind out there? 6.5mm or 7mm something PRC maybe
Others may disagree
Lol

 

[25 Sharps]

I think you're asking a lot of a bullet for it to perform on such a wide range of game weight and toughness at such a wide range of distances. If you use a single bullet there will have to be compromises.

And that compromise will have to be a lot of damage on smaller animals close in, to get reliable expansion and performance in larger animals further out.

 

[Acm]

Sounds like you need a 6.5x55 loaded with the 130grn Sierra game changer. Unless you love the recoil and are desperate for another .30 cal.

 

[randello88]

Hi everyone, as i told in a previous post i decided i will buy another 308 and I will jeep ranges within 350 meters, 400 max.

It will be a 1:12 22 inch barrel bergara b14 hunter in a mcmillan hunter stock. I didn't go for a tikka cause i prefer cherakote treatment and the other b14 i own is really amazing. It's a 2017 model which shoots 0.3 MOA with 170 gr geco teilmantel and 0.5 MOA with rws dk 165 gr.

The only issue was that it was pretty picky with ammo and it doesn't like 150 grains apparently. But with the cartridge i mentioned is incredibly accurate. The action is very smooth and it has been 100% reliable in feeding and extracting after more than 600 rounds. Zero cold bore shift too.

I am so satisfied i thought to go for a bergara over a tikka but I am sure both guns would serve me well.