GSP Prey drive

[Brittany boy]

Great dog mate, don’t feel bad about using an e-collar, you can get one with a vibrate button you don’t always have to shock. I had one for my Brittany as she was a real chaser on birds and hares. If they fail to stop for the whistle give it a buzz, if it continues to chase give it a shock. They soon learn to listen to the whistle, and if they forget then the buzz is the reminder that you are still attached, you won’t have to shock the dog unless the red mist is up and the chase is on, then you have options, I’ve never had a dog I could run faster than in order to correct it but the collar works. They don’t associate it with you they associate it with the chase.

 

[Mickeydredd]

Hello Mickey, sire is Jomeel monkey wrench and dam is joalbijack sea holly I believe the dam was from one of Lucie hustlers Aytee litters. I’m sure the litter Bert is from was the first for ‘Riverfarm’ a breeder near Birmingham. Why’s that mate ?

just wondered Tom. atb Mike

 

[Bowland blades]

That’s not great real world advice, the dog is not a machine and neither are the sheep.
The dog definitely shouldn’t chase them but to expect it to totally ignore them is unrealistic, there’s also a very real difference between lowland sheep and hill breeds, I’ve had one of mine that was solid with lowland show a lot of interest in little black faced mountain ewes. The little black faces seem to have a very gamey scent.
I run my dogs on both hills and lowland areas, sheep are never far away.
I trust them as far as I see them and not an inch further.

mine have familiarity with all breeds ! I appreciate what your saying that is why i make the effort to get among different sheep at different locations , from the salt washed grasses around Morecambe bay to the hills at home . A dog that would harm sheep is a very big issue to me as i live on a large sheep farm , my old lab recently departed really looked out for the lambs that often get stuck in the wire mesh, giving out this hobble wail of a cry to bring in my help ( so yeah that is not ignoring) . The younger one just blanks them like they where not even present .
If i didn't trust them i wouldn't keep them its that simple , it couldn't ever work for us here !

 

[Dunwaters]

mine have familiarity with all breeds ! I appreciate what your saying that is why i make the effort to get among different sheep at different locations , from the salt washed grasses around Morecambe bay to the hills at home . A dog that would harm sheep is a very big issue to me as i live on a large sheep farm , my old lab recently departed really looked out for the lambs that often get stuck in the wire mesh, giving out this hobble wail of a cry to bring in my help ( so yeah that is not ignoring) . The younger one just blanks them like they where not even present .
If i didn't trust them i wouldn't keep them its that simple , it couldn't ever work for us here !

I put a lot of time into my dogs, I don’t want them turned inside out by a landowner with a .243.
I don’t expect my dogs to ignore sheep, I want them to stay away where possible but if they do bump a loner I want them to drop and ask for guidance. The dog can be up to 200M out when this happens, ( pointers spend quite a bit of time out there ) and moving at a fair clip, but its not negotiable, sheep run or you get close, get your arse on the ground.
Personally I regard no dog as being fully trustworthy with sheep, that’s why I trust mine as far far as I can see them and not one inch further.
So a slightly different approach to yours, but to the same end, if we keep this up we may find ourselves agreeing on something one day.

 

[Lloyd90]

He does sit very well, but yes maybe I should concentrate more on that also -thanks for your comments.

I’ll be blunt Tom, not to be mean but to try and help you.

I hope you take it the right way.

You say the dog sits very well, but you said he runs in when he wants to.

You said he recalls 99.9% of the time, but only if there’s no distractions (so only when he wants to).

The basics aren’t reliable or aren’t fully embedded.

Go and see a trainer and get the basics 200% and crack on. Don’t give up, keep working on it, and get it nailed down.

If you can’t get the dog 100% steady to a dummy then don’t work it on game, that’s just a no brainer.

Keep trying and good luck, looks like a lovely dog.

 

[Bowland blades]

I put a lot of time into my dogs, I don’t want them turned inside out by a landowner with a .243.
I don’t expect my dogs to ignore sheep, I want them to stay away where possible but if they do bump a loner I want them to drop and ask for guidance. The dog can be up to 200M out when this happens, ( pointers spend quite a bit of time out there ) and moving at a fair clip, but its not negotiable, sheep run or you get close, get your arse on the ground.
Personally I regard no dog as being fully trustworthy with sheep, that’s why I trust mine as far far as I can see them and not one inch further.
So a slightly different approach to yours, but to the same end, if we keep this up we may find ourselves agreeing on something one day.

i might be a bit different in the respect i have had to act for a landowner in a real bad case

 

[Dunwaters]

i might be a bit different in the respect i have had to act for a landowner in a real bad case

I’ve done that too but never again.
My dogs can be in a sheep pasture just by crossing a stream and ducking through a wire fence, it makes me a bit defensive.

 

[Boosh]

Use what a lot of lurcher men have used for years, a long line.
Stop the break immediately at the same time as jolting the dog and verbally reinforcing it.
Its a short sharp shock effect.
if he continues whilst on the line it's up to you what you do.

 

[Fosbery Holster]

Hi Tom,
If you even think you have a sheep problem with your dog or think he’s taking to much notice of them this is the perfect time of the year to sort it by asking your local farmer to put him in a small pen with either tups or yews with lambs at foot but you must be present with your commands ready, you’ll find the farmer will respect you for taking the initiative particularly if you live close by.
I’ve done this with all my HPR’s at a young age before they have shown any interest whatsoever in sheep and in my case l only needed to do this once with every dog.

Basic commands heel work stop recall must have been instilled in any dog before running them where game could be present.

The running in to anything is a no no and must be stopped. If any of mine were attempting this at any age l would run them on a long line with me holding on the other end of the slack line, when the youngster attempted to chase/run in l would take up the slack and put them on their arse giving them a shock whilst blowing the stop whistle and making into them to reinforce the commands. Again l only had to do this once with any offenders, it makes them think “how the feck did he do that”. But remember to time it so it doesn’t hurt the dog it’s designed to curb the dogs deafness to commands.

I’ve never used a EC l thought they were banned !

 

[Jon P]

I’ve never used a EC l thought they were banned !

Banned in Wales

 

[Fosbery Holster]

Banned in Wales

Thank you for correcting me, in my ignorance l thought they were banned totally.

 

[levigsp]

The use of the E collar used judiciously will right his current wrongs immediately. Contrary to popular and wrong belief the use will not fry your dog, it will only extend and reinforce the hold over him that you are the boss. Just about any dog will respond after at most three tickles. Once dog has collar on and connects the tickle with it they will without hurting become extremely compliant.
The e collar with the buzzer on it or the alarm is the way to go and if you initiate a system where after two warning buzz`s next is the tickle the dog will never have to wear one again.
Even if the battery is flat the collar is still of use out in the field in early days. I have seen dogs that were charlie mansons realise that it is of no use fighting the tide.

I have witnessed a few well bred gsps ignore shock collars on the highest seting due to prey drive.

 

[levigsp]

So, I do not think you have done anything wrong. I have kept, bred trained and worked GSPs on all quarry in UK and Europe for many years.
I dont stop my dogs chasing birds etc until they reach their second winter.
By them most will have stopped and are pointing, or I will stop them with correct point training, something they all get anyway.
As for chasing sheep deer etc, 25 meters of Kevlar string fastened to a broad collar is what I use and another person. Get permission to be in a sheep field and stand in a gateway or anywhere handy and stand there with dog loose in his mind, but hold the end of the string. Get you friend to walk toward you, but behind the sheep at a brisk walk, sheep will trot. If the dog looks, say no, as they run closer, if he gives chase he will be stopped in his tracks safely and no doubt will not repeat his mistake. Next fasten a simple lead to the collar and walk him to livestock thats just be fed, walk straight past as close as you dare, if he looks so be it, but if he deviates from his walking line, correct him. It will not take many goes to get him rock steady. Recall should be 100%. If you want any advise message me.

 

[Jon P]

All my dogs are very good with sheep, they get to run through them on a daily basis. however my youngest GWP (almost 3 yrs) looses all control with new born lambs. So for a few weeks a year she is run on other land to exercise and there are no lambs on my deer ground. As soon as lambs are a few weeks old no issues at all and she will ignore them again. Also can’t break her to cats, some dogs to have ridiculous high prey drives on certain things. However sheep are a definite NO.

 

[T.eddie]

My dog was similar and I put an E-collar on him to correct these, it made a world of difference. If you go down that route you will no doubt have people tell you its inhumane i disagree whole heartedly. Introduction to the collar is just as key as understanding when to use it. My dog wore the collar on walks for a week without it being turned on. Followed by another week where I had the control visible to him again with the collar turned off. Then the training begins, firstly with understanding what level on the collar you need to use for the dog, its not about this being painful it just needs to get a response be that ear flick or looking around etc. Then while on a lead you can start the training with the collar do the commands, correct on lead at the same time as using the collar. This is crucial for the dog to understand not only what is expected but how the correction works. When your happy remove the lead and do more training and continue it.

My dog wheres the collar all the time because its just part of our routine, no different to putting the lead on. the collar I use has a sound function, 9/10 if used it is just the sound now. we have had hares, muntjac, rabbits etc pop out near, next or infront of us. Does my dog get excited, yeah i would say so, but he doesnt charge off and he has never got hold of anything. In situations where it becomes a matter of safety wither for him, another dog/animal then I have turned the intensity up to ensure he stops without any further worry.

What this has allowed is for my dog to be off lead where others can't. Ive had messages from people around the world that have the same breed as me that have asked how ive been able to get him like that and its all down to the e-collar. Even the guy that has my dogs half brother

sorry for the chapter and verse

 

[bogtrotter]

Don't give up on this dog he can be fixed
IMO you have made the classic mistake of starting to soon these dogs are very slow to mature I don't begin to train mine until they are eighteen months don't expect much sense out of him until he is two put the work in you will be as frustrated as hell by him but one day it will be as if someone had flicked a switch and you will have a different dog
Its not a Lab you are training so don't treat him like one go back to the beginning and start on the basics and go slowly don't even think of introducing him to game until you have everything else sorted
I will say it again go slowly you can't hurry training these dogs to try is a receipe for disaster.
Finally do you just want him to work deer or do you want a dual dog IMO if you want him to work birds as well start him on them and get a seasons work under his belt before introducing him to deer start them.on deer and often they have no interest in other Game.
Good luck and make haste slowly.

 

[Dunwaters]

It’s not just sheep, I never had a dog worth feeding that wouldn’t take after a hare.
Thats much harder to stage manage and likely to happen when the dog is out at distance. GSP’s are fast and persistent, they’ll likely catch it.
Sheep I can see myself most of the time and be ready for, with a hare and dog in full chase the collar is priceless.

 

[TomT3]

I’ll be blunt Tom, not to be mean but to try and help you.

I hope you take it the right way.

You say the dog sits very well, but you said he runs in when he wants to.

You said he recalls 99.9% of the time, but only if there’s no distractions (so only when he wants to).

The basics aren’t reliable or aren’t fully embedded.

Go and see a trainer and get the basics 200% and crack on. Don’t give up, keep working on it, and get it nailed down.

If you can’t get the dog 100% steady to a dummy then don’t work it on game, that’s just a no brainer.

Keep trying and good luck, looks like a lovely dog.

Thanks Lloyd comments acknowledged not mean at all mate-your right basics aren’t fully embedded yet-more work from me required!

 

[TomT3]

So, I do not think you have done anything wrong. I have kept, bred trained and worked GSPs on all quarry in UK and Europe for many years.
I dont stop my dogs chasing birds etc until they reach their second winter.
By them most will have stopped and are pointing, or I will stop them with correct point training, something they all get anyway.
As for chasing sheep deer etc, 25 meters of Kevlar string fastened to a broad collar is what I use and another person. Get permission to be in a sheep field and stand in a gateway or anywhere handy and stand there with dog loose in his mind, but hold the end of the string. Get you friend to walk toward you, but behind the sheep at a brisk walk, sheep will trot. If the dog looks, say no, as they run closer, if he gives chase he will be stopped in his tracks safely and no doubt will not repeat his mistake. Next fasten a simple lead to the collar and walk him to livestock thats just be fed, walk straight past as close as you dare, if he looks so be it, but if he deviates from his walking line, correct him. It will not take many goes to get him rock steady. Recall should be 100%. If you want any advise message me.

Hi Levi,

Thank you for your advice, it is much appreciated-especially from a lot more experienced gsp owner. My mate owns the farm and sheep so will give this a go.

Cheers

 

[TomT3]

Don't give up on this dog he can be fixed
IMO you have made the classic mistake of starting to soon these dogs are very slow to mature I don't begin to train mine until they are eighteen months don't expect much sense out of him until he is two put the work in you will be as frustrated as hell by him but one day it will be as if someone had flicked a switch and you will have a different dog
Its not a Lab you are training so don't treat him like one go back to the beginning and start on the basics and go slowly don't even think of introducing him to game until you have everything else sorted
I will say it again go slowly you can't hurry training these dogs to try is a receipe for disaster.
Finally do you just want him to work deer or do you want a dual dog IMO if you want him to work birds as well start him on them and get a seasons work under his belt before introducing him to deer start them.on deer and often they have no interest in other Game.
Good luck and make haste slowly.

Thanks bogtrotter points taken re taking it slow- I was aware of them taking longer but yes he is still only 15 months so I’ll concentrate more on the basics.

In reality id like him to be an all rounder but truthfully have been concentrating more on deer the last 5 years or so. I do train him with the dummy for retrieving every week but only one session or so.