Scottish Government plans to ban use of ALL lead based ammunition by 2025

[hendrix's rifle]

Re the cost issue. If I spend 50p on a lead bullet and shoot a Roe deer I will typically loose one shoulder due to meat damage. Perhaps both.

Whats a shoulder worth - well I can a decent meal for three with one shoulder. £5 to £10 perhaps if I was buying a bit of lamb or chicken to make a similar curry or casserole.

Spending £1 on a non toxic Fox bullet I have minimal damage on both shoulders and can eat up to the whole in the knowledge that I am not ingesting lead.

So spend an extra £0.50 and I gain an extra 1 if not 2 shoulders worth of meat valued at £5 to £20.

And I know that I am poisoning wildlife through lead fragments in grallochs, nor am I exposing my family, friends or general public to lead shot meat.

And to be honest the arguments are over as the powers that be have made their decisions.

Again though, there's more to it than shooting a single deer and that's the bit you seem to be missing. Some of us enjoy honing our skills ringing steel and it is precisely there where the costing increases massively.

Yes, if they want to ban it for game or anything destined for the table fair play. I can deal with that without much drama. It's the entire blanket ban that I've got a gripe with. Even stalking squirrel with the 22 or an airgun. It won't be happening (I've tried the lead free pellets and wouldn't shoot anything with them).

 

[Heym SR20]

Again though, there's more to it than shooting a single deer and that's the bit you seem to be missing. Some of us enjoy honing our skills ringing steel and it is precisely there where the costing increases massively.

Yes, if they want to ban it for game or anything destined for the table fair play. I can deal with that without much drama. It's the entire blanket ban that I've got a gripe with. Even stalking squirrel with the 22 or an airgun. It won't be happening (I've tried the lead free pellets and wouldn't shoot anything with them).

Personally I don’t see any real issue with continuing to use lead for target shooting especially where the lead can be captured and contained. I too use cheap FMJ bullets for gong bashing in the open air.

If you are handling the targets make sure you use gloves, wash hands after handling and avoid breathing in lead dust - finally a use for those face masks we all have lying about

 

[User00040]

Also how humane the non lead alternatives are.
One of the reasons that I have gone back to lead bullets is the delay in the animal dying after being shot in comparison to same shot placement with lead bullets.
The other issue is obviously supply. But that's a whole new can of worms eh.

Hope DOC has all the choppa boys using copper through their AR15's for the Thar culls, not like they care about carcass quality or recovery!

 

[ChesterP]

Personally I don’t see any real issue with continuing to use lead for target shooting especially where the lead can be captured and contained. I too use cheap FMJ bullets for gong bashing in the open air.

If you are handling the targets make sure you use gloves, wash hands after handling and avoid breathing in lead dust - finally a use for those face masks we all have lying about

You might not but range owners/operators will unfortunately. The costs of lead recovery will be prohibitive if done to the letter of the HSE paper with the net result that ranges will impose copper use only unless there are exceptions permitted.

 

[Heym SR20]

You might not but range owners/operators will unfortunately. The costs of lead recovery will be prohibitive if done to the letter of the HSE paper with the net result that ranges will impose copper use only unless there are exceptions permitted.

And yet others will argue that non lead ammo is far too dangerous to use on ranges as ricochet risk is far too high.

Lets just face it. Cost of ammo has always been and always will be an issue. Even the cheapest FMJ ammo will cost £1 a shot for anything bigger than a .223. Shooting of any type that involves powder, unless someone else is paying, is not a poor mans sport.

There are lead free options for target shooting that are significantly cheaper than hunting bullets. They are same ball park as premium target bullets. But if you are running a 300 win mag or 338 Lapua Mag target / sniper rifle the cost is pretty eye watering regardless of the bullet.

 

[25 Sharps]

Also how humane the non lead alternatives are.
One of the reasons that I have gone back to lead bullets is the delay in the animal dying after being shot in comparison to same shot placement with lead bullets.
The other issue is obviously supply. But that's a whole new can of worms eh.

What calibre and what bullet?

Must admit the yew tree fragmenting type are killing as quickly as lead for me generally

 

[Mungo]

What calibre and what bullet?

Must admit the yew tree fragmenting type are killing as quickly as lead for me generally

I am in the process of getting a load developed for Yew Tree 114gr in 6.5PRC. It looks like they’ll end up with a muzzle velocity of around 3450fps.

I doubt I will be having problems with a lack of expansion…

 

[User00040]

I am in the process of getting a load developed for Yew Tree 114gr in 6.5PRC. It looks like they’ll end up with a muzzle velocity of around 3450fps.

I doubt I will be having problems with a lack of expansion…

How many rounds do you think the barrel will do with those? Physics isn't free.

Assuming the 114grn copper bullet has a simillar (if not longer) profile and bearing surface to a 140 grain class high BC 6.5 bullet, and you are using a double base powder?

Then again, 1k rounds or (much) less will probably last most for a long while!

 

[viking90]

Barrels are cheap, just screw a new one on when it's toast

 

[Ronin]

How many rounds do you think the barrel will do with those? Physics isn't free.

Assuming the 114grn copper bullet has a simillar (if not longer) profile and bearing surface to a 140 grain class high BC 6.5 bullet, and you are using a double base powder?

Then again, 1k rounds or (much) less will probably last most for a long while!

1000 deer at conservative estimate - barrel life circa 1400 rounds with practice sessions included

What kills barrels is repeat string fire

Not twos and threes killing deer

Even F class hot sevens Magnums will last in excess of 900 accurate rounds barrel life

A non issue really

 

[Mungo]

How many rounds do you think the barrel will do with those? Physics isn't free.

Assuming the 114grn copper bullet has a simillar (if not longer) profile and bearing surface to a 140 grain class high BC 6.5 bullet, and you are using a double base powder?

Then again, 1k rounds or (much) less will probably last most for a long while!

It’s a hunting rifle, and barrels are consumables.

 

[25 Sharps]

I am in the process of getting a load developed for Yew Tree 114gr in 6.5PRC. It looks like they’ll end up with a muzzle velocity of around 3450fps.

I doubt I will be having problems with a lack of expansion…

I’m running them at 2900 and they’re expanding well. Your load is going to be like a laser beam!

 

[Mungo]

I’m running them at 2900 and they’re expanding well. Your load is going to be like a laser beam!

That’s the plan!! I’m excited to put it to use. Nervous sika deer in clearfell…

Though it’ll probably get tested on roe deer first…

 

[25 Sharps]

That’s the plan!! I’m excited to put it to use. Nervous sika deer in clearfell…

Though it’ll probably get tested on roe deer first…

I’ll look forward to the range reports

 

[Mungo]

I’ll look forward to the range reports

I’ll be curious to see how the damage compares to 147gr Eldm.

 

[Dave_45]

I'm keen to try the new 102 gr yew tree in the 6.5 284 @Ronin is working up for me

 

[HonestJohn]

It’s a hunting rifle, and barrels are consumables.

Say that to a double rifle hunter

 

[takbok]

That’s the plan!! I’m excited to put it to use. Nervous sika deer in clearfell…

Though it’ll probably get tested on roe deer first…

Unfortunately higher velocity won't be the magic solution you're after. Shoot them in the wrong place and they'll still run. A heart shot or a bit further back will still give you a 50m dash or so - same with Roe. I shoot softer 110gr bullets @ 3450fps so have relevant experience of this. Even hitting a shoulder doesn't guarantee that you'll drop the deer on the spot - hitting the spine is a different story.

High velocity is fantastic for the trajectory. A 200m zero means that you don't need to use the range finder too much

I've shot a few roe through the shoulders at close range recently and there's a lot of damage but not excessive. I'll sometimes throw away both shoulders rather than spend the time trying to salvage a bit of shoulder.

You might find that there is less damage than the slower ELD-M's. I got a lot of damage with the very few deer I shot with fairly low velocity A-max and Gamechangers.

 

[Mungo]

Say that to a double rifle hunter

Yes - but they’re unlikely to be shooting large numbers, and don’t generally try to shoot at long range.

 

[Mungo]

Unfortunately higher velocity won't be the magic solution you're after. Shoot them in the wrong place and they'll still run. A heart shot or a bit further back will still give you a 50m dash or so - same with Roe. I shoot softer 110gr bullets @ 3450fps so have relevant experience of this. Even hitting a shoulder doesn't guarantee that you'll drop the deer on the spot - hitting the spine is a different story.

High velocity is fantastic for the trajectory. A 200m zero means that you don't need to use the range finder too much

I've shot a few roe through the shoulders at close range recently and there's a lot of damage but not excessive. I'll sometimes throw away both shoulders rather than spend the time trying to salvage a bit of shoulder.

You might find that there is less damage than the slower ELD-M's. I got a lot of damage with the very few deer I shot with fairly low velocity A-max and Gamechangers.

I think I’m pretty realistic in my expectations.

Even with the eldms I don’t expect them to drop to shot unless I hit CNS.

My primary aim is something that is as resistant to wind drift as possible (I’m terrible at reading and dealing with wind), and will put a big enough hole in them that it’s not too difficult for the dog to find them.