Open FAC advice

[Polar_Bear]

Hi all, back with another question I’m hoping you can provide some insight on.

I have had my FAC and SGC coming up to 2 years and been a member of my 1st rifle club for approximately 2 years prior to this. My FAC is granted purely for target shooting whilst a member of my club and at ranges with adequate insurance. I’m also a member of CPSA which provides public liability insurance for pretty much all legal shooting.

I’m thinking of applying for an open ticket which will, I believe, allow me to shoot on land which has been granted permission by the police as long as I have permission from the landowner. I would like to do this so that I can start approaching landowners for permission to help with vermin and because I may have the opportunity of occasionally helping some friends out who already have permission to shoot on various parcels of land. Currently I’ve offered to go and help carry etc, but it would be nice if I could also help shoot.

What do you think the chances of this being granted are? I’m based in Durham if that helps.

 

[stubear]

Hi all, back with another question I’m hoping you can provide some insight on.

I have had my FAC and SGC coming up to 2 years and been a member of my 1st rifle club for approximately 2 years prior to this. My FAC is granted purely for target shooting whilst a member of my club and at ranges with adequate insurance. I’m also a member of CPSA which provides public liability insurance for pretty much all legal shooting.

I’m thinking of applying for an open ticket which will, I believe, allow me to shoot on land which has been granted permission by the police as long as I have permission from the landowner. I would like to do this so that I can start approaching landowners for permission to help with vermin and because I may have the opportunity of occasionally helping some friends out who already have permission to shoot on various parcels of land. Currently I’ve offered to go and help carry etc, but it would be nice if I could also help shoot.

What do you think the chances of this being granted are? I’m based in Durham if that helps.

I think you’re thinking of a closed ticket - that gives you the ability to shoot quarry on land that’s been cleared by police and where you have permission.

An open ticket gives the same but the land doesn’t need to be cleared by the police - the determination is on you.

If you have something in writing from one of your mates that should be enough to get a deer/vermin condition added but I’d suspect it will be closed to start with and then the ability to get an open condition would come along later. That said if you have a good reason to ask for an open condition then you can put it in writing - I got my FAC opened as it was a condition of the syndicates I’m on.

 

[NullMac]

Just ask, see what they say. Nothing to lose. Shy bairns get nowt, as I am sure you know...

 

[ZimCoxy136]

I think it would make sense to get the condition changed to allow you to shoot deer, vermin, and all other legal quarry on land you have permission, and then worry about having the open condition (which is purely about not having to get land cleared by your licensing authority)

I think it would be unlikely that your land condition is opened up for shooting live quarry if your certificate has only ever been conditioned for targets.

Best thing to do would be to discuss with your feo, and go from there.

 

[Polar_Bear]

I’ve got to admit I don’t like asking unless I think there’s a reasonable chance of getting it. I feel like asking them can be painting a target on your back, if you know what I mean.

I wouldn’t be looking at shooting deer for a long long time if at all and maybe just a guided stalk to see what it’s like so doing a DSC probably won’t happen for a long time. Are there similar courses that can make you safer, more effective and more likely to get an open ticket but tailored around rats, foxes and other vermin?

 

[ZimCoxy136]

I’ve got to admit I don’t like asking unless I think there’s a reasonable chance of getting it. I feel like asking them can be painting a target on your back, if you know what I mean.

I wouldn’t be looking at shooting deer for a long long time if at all and maybe just a guided stalk to see what it’s like so doing a DSC probably won’t happen for a long time. Are there similar courses that can make you safer, more effective and more likely to get an open ticket but tailored around rats, foxes and other vermin?

I shouldn’t think you would need to do any courses for vermin control to be added as a condition. In theory you shouldn’t need a course to shoot deer either, although most forces like to see it now.

If you get permission from a landowner to shoot vermin, get it in writing, send it in to your licensing authority, along with your certificate, and I would think a new certificate would be sent out with the condition allowing you to control vermin.

With regards to the deer courses, I wouldn’t bother with anything other than the DSC1.

 

[Tf223]

As mentioned I would apply to have the target only condition changed to allow for pest/vermin control on land they deem suitable. They will want that on a closed ticket - so they will inspect and want to see a piece of land you have permission to shoot at the time of applying for the conditions to be amended.

They will not grant a ticket for pest control on the basis you want it before you find permission later, let alone going straight for an open ticket allowing for shooting without their prior approval.

Once you’ve got a bit of pest control experience and maybe are being offered other land then ask for that closed ticket to be opened up so you can deem whether it land is safe or not.

Tf223

 

[Polar_Bear]

Thank you for the advice so far.

This is just a theoretical question but if I was invited to accompany a friend who has an open ticket and I had a closed ticket would I then be allowed to shoot on land that hadn’t been police checked as the person with the open ticket had checked it?

I know it’s a lot of questions but I don’t want to make any mistakes which harm my licence or looks bad on other shooters.

 

[maximus otter]

…would I then be allowed to shoot on land that hadn’t been police checked as the person with the open ticket had checked it?

Just checked my (Willy Wonka Gold) ticket, and the condition says, “…on land over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot.”

No insult to you intended, nor should one be inferred, but the police could foresee circumstances where safe, experienced Stalker A deems a parcel of land to be safe to shoot over; and gives permission to daft, inexperienced Stalker B, who then goes out and shoots pigeons out of trees with his .270…

maximus otter

 

[Pedro]

I think the OP is asking if he can have a closed ticket (initially) where he can shoot over land where there's permission and is police approved so that he can then go and get that land to shoot over somewhere. But I think he's maybe going about it the wrong way. To grant such a condition, the police will want to see initially that he HAS got permission, otherwise they may well deem good reason will not be present.

So, Polar Bear, my way of doing it would be to get such permission first, then apply for a condition allowing you to shoot there. Of course, depending where you are, you can get old getting any sort of variation, change of conditions, renewal and grants at the present. Which I bet puts a lot of people off.

 

[Polar_Bear]

The main thing for the short-term was just making sure I don’t break any rules/laws that could get my licence revoked, make things harder in the future or reflect badly on the shooting community. So I think for now if I do get any invites I’ll just go along to carry and assist and enjoy being outside whilst hopefully building a good reputation for myself. As there’s no conditions on my SGC I believe I could also shoot this if the need and opportunity arose.

Longer term is to start learning as much as possible on what can and can’t legally be shot, researching on what farms etc are around and once ready approaching some to offer my assistance before applying for a closed FAC

 

[Donkey Basher]

Hi all, back with another question I’m hoping you can provide some insight on.

I have had my FAC and SGC coming up to 2 years and been a member of my 1st rifle club for approximately 2 years prior to this. My FAC is granted purely for target shooting whilst a member of my club and at ranges with adequate insurance. I’m also a member of CPSA which provides public liability insurance for pretty much all legal shooting.

I’m thinking of applying for an open ticket which will, I believe, allow me to shoot on land which has been granted permission by the police as long as I have permission from the landowner. I would like to do this so that I can start approaching landowners for permission to help with vermin and because I may have the opportunity of occasionally helping some friends out who already have permission to shoot on various parcels of land. Currently I’ve offered to go and help carry etc, but it would be nice if I could also help shoot.

What do you think the chances of this being granted are? I’m based in Durham if that helps.

You are putting the cart before the horse imo - you are very unlikely to get a condition for stalking/vermin shooting without first having a nominated piece of ground. My suggestion would be to find someone local to you who is prepared to mentor you & allow you to shoot their rifle under the ‘estate rifle’ rules & then in time put in a variation as & when you have the ‘good reason’ that having land & permission provides.

 

[Bowland blades]

Hi all, back with another question I’m hoping you can provide some insight on.

I have had my FAC and SGC coming up to 2 years and been a member of my 1st rifle club for approximately 2 years prior to this. My FAC is granted purely for target shooting whilst a member of my club and at ranges with adequate insurance. I’m also a member of CPSA which provides public liability insurance for pretty much all legal shooting.

I’m thinking of applying for an open ticket which will, I believe, allow me to shoot on land which has been granted permission by the police as long as I have permission from the landowner. I would like to do this so that I can start approaching landowners for permission to help with vermin and because I may have the opportunity of occasionally helping some friends out who already have permission to shoot on various parcels of land. Currently I’ve offered to go and help carry etc, but it would be nice if I could also help shoot.

What do you think the chances of this being granted are? I’m based in Durham if that helps.

it totally depends how your constabulary run things , liability insurance while a good thing should make no difference with the coppers as they are interested in keeping folks safe from someone who might do something stupid , not seeking compensation after the fact .
Only one way to find out is ask them and give your reason why you require is . Some police forces dont offer anything but open, lets be honest there is no safe ground - only a safe shot or an unsafe shot

 

[Tim.243]

Thank you for the advice so far.

This is just a theoretical question but if I was invited to accompany a friend who has an open ticket and I had a closed ticket would I then be allowed to shoot on land that hadn’t been police checked as the person with the open ticket had checked it?

I know it’s a lot of questions but I don’t want to make any mistakes which harm my licence or looks bad on other shooters.

Seen this crop up a number of times over the years,
A person with an open ticket can shoot UN Cleared land, (with permission) so if the invite is on his/her ground and it is not cleared then no you can't, as the person may have a OT but you can only shoot to what is written on your FAC as they can't clear the ground for you.
All my previous land was cleared for .22lr then cleared for my .243 but I shoot it with my .270 on a OT

If the person has the sporting rights/lease or the occupier this is the work around for loaning /estate rifle.
Overseas visitors shoot on a temporary arrangement where I had two people come separately and were issued a clone of my FAC for that period so they had open tickets as mine is. There are conditions in that the land to be shot is noted in the application. One farmer has 5 farms so I just named them etc.

I will lay good money many people never bother to look it up and just invite their friend or even give it a second thought.

It costs nothing to ask which in your case you are doing just that.

 

[TringSaint]

Hi all, back with another question I’m hoping you can provide some insight on.

I have had my FAC and SGC coming up to 2 years and been a member of my 1st rifle club for approximately 2 years prior to this. My FAC is granted purely for target shooting whilst a member of my club and at ranges with adequate insurance. I’m also a member of CPSA which provides public liability insurance for pretty much all legal shooting.

I’m thinking of applying for an open ticket which will, I believe, allow me to shoot on land which has been granted permission by the police as long as I have permission from the landowner. I would like to do this so that I can start approaching landowners for permission to help with vermin and because I may have the opportunity of occasionally helping some friends out who already have permission to shoot on various parcels of land. Currently I’ve offered to go and help carry etc, but it would be nice if I could also help shoot.

What do you think the chances of this being granted are? I’m based in Durham if that helps.

If you are target only then I can imagine the police not wanting to give you an ‘open’ ticket until you have had experience in the field.
I got mine under the old mentoring scheme and had a closed ticket with ALQ on approved land for 5 years before they opened it up.

That was TVP so other forces might be different.

 

[ZimCoxy136]

I’ve got to admit I don’t like asking unless I think there’s a reasonable chance of getting it. I feel like asking them can be painting a target on your back, if you know what I mean.

I wouldn’t be looking at shooting deer for a long long time if at all and maybe just a guided stalk to see what it’s like so doing a DSC probably won’t happen for a long time. Are there similar courses that can make you safer, more effective and more likely to get an open ticket but tailored around rats, foxes and other vermin?

Thank you for the advice so far.

This is just a theoretical question but if I was invited to accompany a friend who has an open ticket and I had a closed ticket would I then be allowed to shoot on land that hadn’t been police checked as the person with the open ticket had checked it?

I know it’s a lot of questions but I don’t want to make any mistakes which harm my licence or looks bad on other shooters.

In short, no you would not be allowed to shoot your rifle there, even though your mate with an open certificate can. UNLESS the land has been cleared for your calibre, and the landowner has given you permission.

If in doubt, ring or email your licensing authority with the name and postcode of the land, and they will tell you if it is cleared for your calibre.

 

[Tim.243]

If you are target only then I can imagine the police not wanting to give you an ‘open’ ticket until you have had experience in the field.
I got mine under the old mentoring scheme and had a closed ticket with ALQ on approved land for 5 years before they opened it up.

That was TVP so other forces might be different.

Mine was opened up in 14 months as I pointed out (as I read through the guidance notes)
Old version.
The words underlined may be omitted once the certificate holder has demonstrated competence. There is no set time for this and each case should be considered on its individual merits).

 

[TringSaint]

Mine was opened up in 14 months as I pointed out (as I read through the guidance notes)
Old version.
The words underlined may be omitted once the certificate holder has demonstrated competence. There is no set time for this and each case should be considered on its individual merits).

I asked the same thing but my FEO said it wouldn’t be changed until I did my renewal!
I think TVP were drowning at the time and were either putting work off or dragging it forwards (inviting renewals to be done a year early at one point).

 

[SSN100]

I’ve just got my ticket. The FLO was very helpful, but down both .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor as I hadn’t made up my mind. I asked about the possibility of getting an “open” licence, but he didn’t seem to recognise it as a category. Which surprised me. I’m allowed to shoot on any land that has been cleared and where I have permission.

 

[Tim.243]

I asked the same thing but my FEO said it wouldn’t be changed until I did my renewal!
I think TVP were drowning at the time and were either putting work off or dragging it forwards (inviting renewals to be done a year early at one point).

When the feo came around he pulled out my paperwork with my highlighted copy of the wording and said
"most people don't read the notes Tim" and laughed. Also he looked through a file of piles of foxes from different farms.
As I pointed out an open ticket is not just related to deer it is a quarry species (foxes) which people over look.