Subsonic .222 recipes

[Foxyboy43]

I was having a peruse through my ammunition bunker stocks and realised I have subsonic ammunition for .308 and 7.62x54R which I have shot to effect out to 50 yards but have never tried to replicate in my beloved .222. Now that I am seeing some rabbits again I thought it might be an idea to carry said subs when I am out foxing for rabbits as and when they present. I know it will take a bit of zeroing adjustment but on the Pard 008P there are five zeroes and I could “reserve” one specifically for the subsonics so could simply toggle (impressed huh?) between the screens as required. What could go wrong?
Sooo - a quick rootle on t’internet revealed much discussion about the .222’s slow twist and difficulty stabilising subs and the following table from those nice people at Hodgdon:-
I know Titegroup is a particularly safe powder with no risk of the dreaded “flashover” and by good fortune I have a couple of tubs and some Sierra 55gns sooo the question is can I by simple comparison of .223 and .222 case volumes deduce a load and has anyone tried doing this and if so how did it go? Obviously if it all went I would be particularly grateful to hear from anyone including their surviving relatives…..
Before anyone asks - it’s Sunday, a non-shooting day, it’s raining,I have finished all my reloading of cases fired yesterday and I really am bored!
OK?

 

[Smellydog]

Go for it, just drop two grain for the lower case volume upping pressure a pinch.

I don't think flash over has been proven.
However, double dosing near 100% nitro powders certainly is nasty.
As is wrong primers with certain powder/cartridge combos. As is wrong bullet or lack of neck tension in other combos.
So go for it but if I may add bullet performance critter end maybe improved by reversing the bullet.

Just loaded some 30/30 with 8.5 gn of Herco. It's less than 50% case fill and just breaking wind...sonic. now if I accidentally dropped twice in one case it's going to get my attention real quick so I weigh each cartridge before shelving.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Yep thanks.
55gns bullet over 2.9 gns of Titegroup is my extrapolation of the recipe for the .223 based on respective case volumes so looks like a plan - unless someone knows different……
A&E Experiences to follow, fingers crossed whilst I still have them…..

 

[Smellydog]

A&E Experiences to follow, fingers crossed whilst I still have them…..

Don't be daft pussy

 

[Flintlock]

Be interesting to hear back on how that works for your .222. I have one too.
I would be interested in finding out if anyone has a subsonic load for .308 using the Hornady Sub-X 190g bullets. I have a full box but would like to hear options. Maybe I need to start a new conversation on this but try here first.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Be interesting to hear back on how that works for your .222. I have one too.
I would be interested in finding out if anyone has a subsonic load for .308 using the Hornady Sub-X 190g bullets. I have a full box but would like to hear options. Maybe I need to start a new conversation on this but try here first.

Not sure about that bullet but Hogdgon have a recipe for Titegroup and subsonic .308 which I have used in both .308 and 7.62x54R - excellent short range shooters - see my avatar opposite!

 

[Flintlock]

Not sure about that bullet but Hogdgon have a recipe for Titegroup and subsonic .308 which I have used in both .308 and 7.62x54R - excellent short range shooters - see my avatar opposite!

FB43, I was going to post a photo of the bullets but I don't know how to do that.

 

[Foxyboy43]

FB43, I was going to post a photo of the bullets but I don't know how to do that.

Down the bottom lhs of your screen is “attach files” click on it then simply tick the chosen pic in your photo library and it will appear in the bottom of your screen with “thumbnail” or “full image” option then tick whichever….
simples.

 

[Flintlock]

Great, thanks FB43. Here's the bullets I have.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Great, thanks FB43. Here's the bullets I have.

My pleasure. Should work fine with Titegroup.

 

[Flintlock]

My pleasure. Should work fine with Titegroup.
View attachment 311133

Yes I am aware of this dada. I've been trying to get H4895 or any of them for that matter but can't get them. In my neck of the woods there is only really a couple of dealers who have good stocks. However, the main dealer is waiting almost 2 years on a shipment. Thanks to Brexit!!

 

[25 Sharps]

Yes I am aware of this dada. I've been trying to get H4895 or any of them for that matter but can't get them. In my neck of the woods there is only really a couple of dealers who have good stocks. However, the main dealer is waiting almost 2 years on a shipment. Thanks to Brexit!!I

I’m not sure brexit is to blame, quite the opposite, REACH (an eu idea) has banned many common powders including, I suspect, H4895

 

[Laurie]

I’m not sure brexit is to blame, quite the opposite, REACH (an eu idea) has banned many common powders including, I suspect, H4895

Of those powders in @Foxyboy43 's two tables, EU REACH has banned importation of:

IMR-4198
IMR-4227
H4198
Hodgdon BM2
H4895
Trail Boss

Not sure about Winchester 296 - most older Win powders are REACH non-compliant.

Trail Boss would have been my first choice in subsonic 222 Rem, real shame it has gone, although it was pretty well unobtainable pre-REACH anyway. If available near you @Foxyboy43, Lovex D060 is a similar specialist powder, in this case designed as a smokeless propellant to mimic black-powder pressures in large 19th century BPCR cartridges and similar, but not requiring full cases or compressed charges and very useful in reduced loads in modern bottlenecked cartridges. Viht N32C 'Tin Star' is another, which like Trail Boss was designed for 'Cowboy Action' loads. Viht discontinued it early this year, but there may still be the odd can around.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Of those powders in @Foxyboy43 's two tables, EU REACH has banned importation of:

IMR-4198
IMR-4227
H4198
Hodgdon BM2
H4895
Trail Boss

Not sure about Winchester 296 - most older Win powders are REACH non-compliant.

Trail Boss would have been my first choice in subsonic 222 Rem, real shame it has gone, although it was pretty well unobtainable pre-REACH anyway. If available near you @Foxyboy43, Lovex D060 is a similar specialist powder, in this case designed as a smokeless propellant to mimic black-powder pressures in large 19th century BPCR cartridges and similar, but not requiring full cases or compressed charges and very useful in reduced loads in modern bottlenecked cartridges. Viht N32C 'Tin Star' is another, which like Trail Boss was designed for 'Cowboy Action' loads. Viht discontinued it early this year, but there may still be the odd can around.

Thank you Laurie for the update and recommendations for subsonic .222 loads. I am fortunate in that I have a fair bit of Titegroup which because of the relatively small loads involved will go a long way. It already works really well in .308 and 7.62x54R.

 

[25 Sharps]

Of those powders in @Foxyboy43 's two tables, EU REACH has banned importation of:

IMR-4198
IMR-4227
H4198
Hodgdon BM2
H4895
Trail Boss

Not sure about Winchester 296 - most older Win powders are REACH non-compliant.

Trail Boss would have been my first choice in subsonic 222 Rem, real shame it has gone, although it was pretty well unobtainable pre-REACH anyway. If available near you @Foxyboy43, Lovex D060 is a similar specialist powder, in this case designed as a smokeless propellant to mimic black-powder pressures in large 19th century BPCR cartridges and similar, but not requiring full cases or compressed charges and very useful in reduced loads in modern bottlenecked cartridges. Viht N32C 'Tin Star' is another, which like Trail Boss was designed for 'Cowboy Action' loads. Viht discontinued it early this year, but there may still be the odd can around.

I am just about to start experimenting with d060 in 45-70. Not for subsonic, for full power copper loads, as it will allow more powder in the shortened case required for hornady’s rubber tipped bullets.

 

[25 Sharps]

Thank you Laurie for the update and recommendations for subsonic .222 loads. I am fortunate in that I have a fair bit of Titegroup which because of the relatively small loads involved will go a long way. It already works really well in .308 and 7.62x54R.

I didn’t know titegrouo could be used for reduced loads, I think I have a tub so will have a play

 

[Foxyboy43]

I didn’t know titegrouo could be used for reduced loads, I think I have a tub so will have a play

Yep.
Hodgdon listed for .308 - 8 gns driving a 165gns bullet . It works in the old Mosins too - see my avatar!

 

[Flintlock]

I’m not sure brexit is to blame, quite the opposite, REACH (an eu idea) has banned many common powders including, I suspect, H4895

Yeah I think that is a banned powder. That said, Brexit is killing us over here on most things. Some mainland tool company's that used to send stuff here no issue, now don't send at all because of Brexit. It is what it is!

 

[Muir]

Of those powders in @Foxyboy43 's two tables, EU REACH has banned importation of:

IMR-4198
IMR-4227
H4198
Hodgdon BM2
H4895
Trail Boss

Not sure about Winchester 296 - most older Win powders are REACH non-compliant.

Trail Boss would have been my first choice in subsonic 222 Rem, real shame it has gone, although it was pretty well unobtainable pre-REACH anyway. If available near you @Foxyboy43, Lovex D060 is a similar specialist powder, in this case designed as a smokeless propellant to mimic black-powder pressures in large 19th century BPCR cartridges and similar, but not requiring full cases or compressed charges and very useful in reduced loads in modern bottlenecked cartridges. Viht N32C 'Tin Star' is another, which like Trail Boss was designed for 'Cowboy Action' loads. Viht discontinued it early this year, but there may still be the odd can around.

Winchester 296 is never to be used with other than full loads with listed date. Same as H110.
Sub sonic velocities can be had but stabilizing a bullet is another thing. ~Muir

 

[Smellydog]

Winchester 296 is never to be used with other than full loads with listed date. Same as H110.
Sub sonic velocities can be had but stabilizing a bullet is another thing. ~Muir

Absolutely.
Iirc never reduce more than 6% from listed max. So if it's not listed for a cartridge avoid going there...