Lead shot could be banned in the Autumn 2023

[countrryboy]

Saw the same thing - go to a pheasant shoot using lead and even standard birdshot drops them lovely.

Go wildfowling and a 3” magnum with #3 shot in steel pricks them and they either fly off or come down still alive….

Lead has a far greater sectional density and penetrates much better.

To be fair I have a mate who easily out shoots me using his steel homelands.
Seen him bring birds down cleanly I don't even lift my gun too, to high for me.

So it can work well ( he maintains needs to be going faster than UK laws allow)
But I do think for poor or average shots and even for good shots it's just not as good.

Be interesting to see how these high bird shoots get on, that shoot only had duck last year, but not looking forward to chasing a lot of runners, still be easier than multiple diving duck thou. Dogs were knackered after each drive.

 

[MerseaMal]

Saw the same thing - go to a pheasant shoot using lead and even standard birdshot drops them lovely.

Go wildfowling and a 3” magnum with #3 shot in steel pricks them and they either fly off or come down still alive….

Lead has a far greater sectional density and penetrates much better.

Been dropping geese and ducks with steel at good range for 20 years with steel, go up a shot size and the pellets are heavier than lead (equivalent smaller shot in lead), all pellets are in the pattern so just as much usable shot and a tighter pattern so what’s not to like?

 

[Taff]

Been dropping geese and ducks with steel at good range for 20 years with steel, go up a shot size and the pellets are heavier than lead (equivalent smaller shot in lead), all pellets are in the pattern so just as much usable shot and a tighter pattern so what’s not to like?

4s all the way, steel is faster than lead for longer and penetrates easier in my opinion, which generally is not worth a lot.

 

[Dunwaters]

Interesting article indeed.
I am not sure how much someone who affords 200 bird days
(Note "days"- plural, not a once a year treat) will be affected by an additional 100 quid per day?
Presumably this will be accompanied by a ban of the sale of lead shot?
How, I wonder, will this be policed ?
There are tens of 1000's of lead shot cartridges already held by game shooters and the like, a "slab" or two here and there and so on.
Let's face it "our" police force are pretty hard-pressed to do any traditional policing these-days as it is (not having a pop at them, God forfend!)

Same question for rifle ammo and bullets.
Either way..
I will continue to use and enjoy my rusty relics/vintage items of sporting equipment and looking on the bright side a vintage Holland and Holland Royal (maybe a pair lol) just got even closer. The cost of some bismuth fades dramatically with the possible saving in cost of said gun(s)
Always worth looking for the positive is it not?
Ade

Here’s how I’d police it, and this ain’t rocket science.
You ban lead ammunition, its sale, possession or use in 2 phases.
Phase 1 is the transition phase where you get to use or exchange your existing stock of lead ammunition pending the lead ban implementation on a stated date.
Phase 2, After the transition period, with the ban legally in place, you carry out inspections of dealers, ranges and individual firearms owners and come down like the wrath of God on anyone with a single “ illegal” cartridge in their possession.
You monitor game dealers and use those lovely traceable labels to identify estates and individuals still using lead post ban.
You routinely prosecute, fine and revoke FAC’s for illegal use and possession post ban.

Its simple and its staring you in the face.

 

[Overlay]

Now lads - always look on the bright side of life - we could be made to tag every Pigeon ,Rabbit and duck we shoot, think of the wasted time on paperwork, more courses and restricted shooting time to allow for all the bull**** permits.

were doing ok by the looks of things - arent we.

 

[Pellet Pinger]

Been dropping geese and ducks with steel at good range for 20 years with steel, go up a shot size and the pellets are heavier than lead (equivalent smaller shot in lead), all pellets are in the pattern so just as much usable shot and a tighter pattern so what’s not to like?

The price!

 

[Rasputin]

Been dropping geese and ducks with steel at good range for 20 years with steel, go up a shot size and the pellets are heavier than lead (equivalent smaller shot in lead), all pellets are in the pattern so just as much usable shot and a tighter pattern so what’s not to like?

Steels here to stay no doubt so we have to get the best from it but we kid ourselves that it’s better down range than lead on water fowl especially for those of us not blessed with an abundance of talent.

Decoyed geese well within reasonable ranges 30 yards and they very often come back very much alive with steel conversely shot plenty with lead at similar ranges and they are dead as doornails.

The experts can talk all they like about the better ballistics and penetration on gel blocks but real world it’s not as clear cut imo.

 

[MerseaMal]

Steels here to stay no doubt so we have to get the best from it but we kid ourselves that it’s better down range than lead on water fowl especially for those of us not blessed with an abundance of talent.

Decoyed geese well within reasonable ranges 30 yards and they very often come back very much alive with steel conversely shot plenty with lead at similar ranges and they are dead as doornails.

The experts can talk all they like about the better ballistics and penetration on gel blocks but real world it’s not as clear cut imo.

Don’t think I’m gifted at all, I’m fact my clay scores tell me I’m not but, downed plenty of 40 ish plus hard geese, 50 plus yard teal with steel, I shoot tight chokes so either kill or miss, can honestly say on the marsh (not game or pigeon) I’ve never had a wounded bird, they’re either dead or missed.
Steel comes out faster than lead but slows quicker… always remember, effective range of a 13 bore is 40 yards and I promise you that you can kill anything as well, if not better at 40 yards with steel over lead….. you are supposed to hit the head and not the body though.

 

[topscots1]

Here’s how I’d police it, and this ain’t rocket science.
You ban lead ammunition, its sale, possession or use in 2 phases.
Phase 1 is the transition phase where you get to use or exchange your existing stock of lead ammunition pending the lead ban implementation on a stated date.
Phase 2, After the transition period, with the ban legally in place, you carry out inspections of dealers, ranges and individual firearms owners and come down like the wrath of God on anyone with a single “ illegal” cartridge in their possession.
You monitor game dealers and use those lovely traceable labels to identify estates and individuals still using lead post ban.
You routinely prosecute, fine and revoke FAC’s for illegal use and possession post ban.

It’s simple and it’s staring you in the face.

So phase 2 involves a search warrant executed on every SGC holder in the U.K. ? How long would they spend on each visit ? How many Police are required for those checks ?

 

[Rasputin]

Don’t think I’m gifted at all, I’m fact my clay scores tell me I’m not but, downed plenty of 40 ish plus hard geese, 50 plus yard teal with steel, I shoot tight chokes so either kill or miss, can honestly say on the marsh (not game or pigeon) I’ve never had a wounded bird, they’re either dead or missed.
Steel comes out faster than lead but slows quicker… always remember, effective range of a 13 bore is 40 yards and I promise you that you can kill anything as well, if not better at 40 yards with steel over lead….. you are supposed to hit the head and not the body though.

Extremely presumptuous to say you never wounded one and also extremely unlikely. Given the average folk shooting and the pattern spread I doubt most people could actually hit a static target duck in the head at 40 yards consistently.

Aim for the body bring it down then club it to death after the dogs brought it back flapping if using steel.

 

[MerseaMal]

Nope. I go fowling about 12 - 15 times a season, for the last 30 odd years… raise my gun maybe 10 times, pull the trigger maybe 8 and walk away with a duck/goose each time… I have a dog now, and have had for 20 years but when I was younger I didn’t, I know that’s not good but it made me pick my shots, and, birds are very different to deer, you aim for the head, not the body!

 

[MerseaMal]

Just wish my clay and other shooting ratios were as good… I can hit fowl and always get clean kills with steel

 

[MerseaMal]

Extremely presumptuous to say you never wounded one and also extremely unlikely. Given the average folk shooting and the pattern spread I doubt most people could actually hit a static target duck in the head at 40 yards consistently.

Aim for the body bring it down then club it to death after the dogs brought it back flapping if using steel.

I’m new to this forum, I’m also passionate about my sport and shooting in general so have to be careful and don’t want to come across as argumentative but… if you couldn’t consistently hit a static target at 40 yards with a shotgun should you really be shooting (not you personally, the royal you as it were) live quarry at all?

 

[Rasputin]

I’m new to this forum, I’m also passionate about my sport and shooting in general so have to be careful and don’t want to come across as argumentative but… if you couldn’t consistently hit a static target at 40 yards with a shotgun should you really be shooting (not you personally, the royal you as it were) live quarry at all?

You specifically said the head which is somewhat small on a duck. At forty yards it’s definitely not an easy one. Body yes head no.

 

[Smellydog]

Here’s how I’d police it, and this ain’t rocket science.
You ban lead ammunition, its sale, possession or use in 2 phases.
Phase 1 is the transition phase where you get to use or exchange your existing stock of lead ammunition pending the lead ban implementation on a stated date.
Phase 2, After the transition period, with the ban legally in place, you carry out inspections of dealers, ranges and individual firearms owners and come down like the wrath of God on anyone with a single “ illegal” cartridge in their possession.
You monitor game dealers and use those lovely traceable labels to identify estates and individuals still using lead post ban.
You routinely prosecute, fine and revoke FAC’s for illegal use and possession post ban.

Its simple and its staring you in the face.

So the police can enter a home without a warrant and tip it upside down?
Good luck with that.
You just encouraged a rebellion there!
How many do you think secretly will say fook you?
Many will.
You will find that the state will of just created an underworld of now illegal activities, because nowadays most of the British public don't just roll over and play dead anymore.
They don't believe a fooking thing they are told any more!

 

[Liveonce]

Here’s how I’d police it, and this ain’t rocket science.
You ban lead ammunition, its sale, possession or use in 2 phases.
Phase 1 is the transition phase where you get to use or exchange your existing stock of lead ammunition pending the lead ban implementation on a stated date.
Phase 2, After the transition period, with the ban legally in place, you carry out inspections of dealers, ranges and individual firearms owners and come down like the wrath of God on anyone with a single “ illegal” cartridge in their possession.
You monitor game dealers and use those lovely traceable labels to identify estates and individuals still using lead post ban.
You routinely prosecute, fine and revoke FAC’s for illegal use and possession post ban.

Its simple and its staring you in the face.

phase 1 who will pay for the exchange of lead to non toxic shot cartridges? Bismuth only please for me.

Phase 2 the police are under resourced now, so where does all this additional resource come from?

Shooting is no where near ready for a cliff edge total ban on lead, the consequences at this time would be catastrophic for the industry and all the jobs it supports. It was going to be a very big challenge before covid and the Ukraine war now virtually impossible to achieve until normality returns what ever the new normality will look like.

We make practically bugger all in the way of sporting ammunition or cartridges components in this country ( try finding a U.K. powder or primer manufacture) and don’t expect rest of the world to rush to help us unless they see a very satisfactory financial return in doing so, as in the scheme of things the U.K. market is tiny and probably shrinking already due to the significant increase in the cost of ammunition, cartridges, clays and licensing.

visit justcartridges they list 86 lead cartridges and just 3 non lead cartridges for clay shooting and for live quarry 129 lead 53 non lead then drill down and see how many are actually in stock.

 

[Ade8mm]

W

Here’s how I’d police it, and this ain’t rocket science.
You ban lead ammunition, its sale, possession or use in 2 phases.
Phase 1 is the transition phase where you get to use or exchange your existing stock of lead ammunition pending the lead ban implementation on a stated date.
Phase 2, After the transition period, with the ban legally in place, you carry out inspections of dealers, ranges and individual firearms owners and come down like the wrath of God on anyone with a single “ illegal” cartridge in their possession.
You monitor game dealers and use those lovely traceable labels to identify estates and individuals still using lead post ban.
You routinely prosecute, fine and revoke FAC’s for illegal use and possession post ban.

Its simple and its staring you in the face.

Will the Police have the resources?
It seems even burglaries don't generally warrant their attention

 

[Smellydog]

I think that when the cabinet gets together and sees how much turn over and resultant revenue is generated from shooting someone will tell someone else to shut the bleep up. FFS.

 

[Utectok]

The world is not going to end without lead ammunition. With sensible choices we can pretty much carry on as normal. .410 and .28 bore will be useless but 20 and 12 will do fine and sensible ranges. Centre fire rifles also will do fine. My only real worry is rimfires where there are yet to exist accurate loads at even reduced ranges. That been my personal experience anyway.

 

[Smellydog]

The world is not going to end without lead ammunition. With sensible choices we can pretty much carry on as normal. .410 and .28 bore will be useless but 20 and 12 will do fine and sensible ranges. Centre fire rifles also will do fine. My only real worry is rimfires where there are yet to exist accurate loads at even reduced ranges. That been my personal experience anyway.

What about muzzloaders.
I am happy that you may feel ok about it but I assure you sir, thousands of us are not happy at all!