Ban on lead shot what about old guns

[TringSaint]

Reading this, I was wondering how those who shoot musket type rifles (sharps, etc) which use a lead ball /projectile will fair when the ban comes in?
Same for some of the old rimmed cartridges like 45-70 / 444 / 44 magnum etc - as these often are 300+ gn projectiles and getting that weight in a copper projectile will make the resulting bullet very long.

 

[Rewulf]

Reading this, I was wondering how those who shoot musket type rifles (sharps, etc) which use a lead ball /projectile will fair when the ban comes in?
Same for some of the old rimmed cartridges like 45-70 / 444 / 44 magnum etc - as these often are 300+ gn projectiles and getting that weight in a copper projectile will make the resulting bullet very long.

For the most part, these type of firearms (and all your pistol calibres) would be used on ranges where the lead is recoverable, so technically, not part of the ban, and you would be right, these calibres just wouldnt work in copper....
The issue is some outdoor ranges could fall foul of the 'recovery' option, perhaps Thorpe cloud and Eskdalemuir are two I could think of ?

 

[jonylandrover]

how many shots do you take with this "old" gun a year?

I have one myself, was owned by my great grandfather, passed down through and now to me, I plan to pass this on to my daughter if she wants it.

Originally had Damascus twist barrels old English hammer gun, was re barrelled in the 60s as the Damascus ones were warn out! the new barrels are totally blank, no markings at all, and are also now rather warn, safe but well warn. Whole gun hasn't got any kind of proof mark or number at all. totally vintage piece of history.

it fits and shoot better than any other gun I own, but its a piece of history I "play with" on a good day.

I fully plan to future proof myself and at least the next generation for this and once a month a slab of good old lead will be purchased and stowed away for use in this piece of sentimental history. When its a day to take it out the cabinet the lead will come with it.

 

[enfieldspares]

So was talking to my dad and we were discussing my grandad's old Spanish side by sides (not profed for steel shot)
My question is so onces leas has banned I'll assume that means these guns can no longer be used ??? Or is there an exemption for old shotguns and if so does that mean cert makers will still produce lead shot certs
Or is it a matter of the lead being banned will force gun owners on lead only shotguns to have no choice to have the deactivated or destroyed ???

IV not seen anything written about this in any of the ban information on what happens to older guns

How positive about there being a concession for lead shot in old guns was the reply you got back from your MP and/or the Labour Environment Minister when you contacted them by letter or email to raise the matter and when you completed the DEFRA Survey?

 

[Smellydog]

One or two large fields on the estate has 2 pigeon shooters over from Italy three times a year, for two weeks each. They shoot 6 days a week and bring a slab each per day normally. These fields are magnets for pigeon so you believably, will give rotating hide sport daily for that long.

That’s beside the point.

Each puts down around 7kg of 28g shot daily, they’ve been coming here for 12 years, likely longer, but I wasn’t in the house further back.

Between these two fields, adjacent to each other, it’s probably 75 acres total coverage.

However, calculating the total lead shot dispersed over these arable fields, over the period, ignoring any deerstalking or driven days or rough shooting, equates to roughly 7 tons, but they don’t shoot Sundays, so let’s call it 5 tons of lead.

If you said to a farmer, I’m going to dump 2.5 tons of lead over your 37.5 acre field. Concentrated within 100yds of the edges (meaning the localised concentration levels are far higher),- the response would probably not be polite.

1 ton of lead is tiny. Say four Gerry cans tops.
Compared to slurry or agri chemicals I'd take the lead.

 

[terrier1]

One might ask the question, is there lead poisoning inadvertently imposed on consumers of farming products?

Work in the food industry for over 40 years and most good manufacturers have a thing called a metal detector and in most cases more than one.

 

[BryanDC]

1 ton of lead is tiny. Say four Gerry cans tops.
Compared to slurry or agri chemicals I'd take the lead.

Probably about right. A little over 88 litres

 

[Chris Richardson]

Lead shot contamination in milling wheat ‘disappointing’ - Farmers Weekly

Flour millers have been left disappointed after finding lead shot contamination in milling wheat in cereal grains at intake. Trade association UK Flour

www.fwi.co.uk

“If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.“

That references shooting in grain stores ….

 

[timbrayford]

how many shots do you take with this "old" gun a year?

I have one myself, was owned by my great grandfather, passed down through and now to me, I plan to pass this on to my daughter if she wants it.

Originally had Damascus twist barrels old English hammer gun, was re barrelled in the 60s as the Damascus ones were warn out! the new barrels are totally blank, no markings at all, and are also now rather warn, safe but well warn. Whole gun hasn't got any kind of proof mark or number at all. totally vintage piece of history.

it fits and shoot better than any other gun I own, but its a piece of history I "play with" on a good day.

I fully plan to future proof myself and at least the next generation for this and once a month a slab of good old lead will be purchased and stowed away for use in this piece of sentimental history. When its a day to take it out the cabinet the lead will come with it.

Hopefully the shooting orgs will see sense and do an about turn on their support for WJ/Packham etc.?

 

[HonestJohn]

Hopefully the shooting orgs will see sense and do an about turn on their support for WJ/Packham etc.?

And gremlins will dance on the night rainbow

 

[timbrayford]

That references shooting in grain stores ….

Surely any kind of shot would be a contaminant?

 

[Javalin80]

For the most part, these type of firearms (and all your pistol calibres) would be used on ranges where the lead is recoverable, so technically, not part of the ban, and you would be right, these calibres just wouldnt work in copper....
The issue is some outdoor ranges could fall foul of the 'recovery' option, perhaps Thorpe cloud and Eskdalemuir are two I could think of ?

Thorpe cloud should be ok as they currently have a deleading programme, agree about Eskdalemuir

 

[Yokel]

Surely any kind of shot would be a contaminant?

When shooting over a field the shot lands on the ground, the grain is 2-3 foot above that when harvested.
A combine won't be picking up lead from the ground.

 

[timbrayford]

Just had an idiotic discussion with a prominent member of a shooting org. who didn't seem to grasp the difference between "available" and "out of stock"!
After 5 years of voluntary phase outs scuppered by supply issues by what stretch of the imagination do the anti-lead people think that by 2029 widespread supplies of non-lead will become available, especially in anything less than 12 bore?

 

[Chris Richardson]

When shooting over a field the shot lands on the ground, the grain is 2-3 foot above that when harvested.
A combine won't be picking up lead from the ground.

My thoughts exactly…

 

[Camdig]

When shooting over a field the shot lands on the ground, the grain is 2-3 foot above that when harvested.
A combine won't be picking up lead from the ground.

The only crops I know that pigeon shooting can cause contamination from shot lead or steel, is veg crops like cabbage, broccoli and the likes the shot gets stuck in the leaves of the plant, am also pretty sure most veg growers know this and don't allow it when crops are heading to maturity.

 

[Mr. Gain]

One or two large fields on the estate has 2 pigeon shooters over from Italy three times a year, for two weeks each. They shoot 6 days a week and bring a slab each per day normally. These fields are magnets for pigeon so you believably, will give rotating hide sport daily for that long.

That’s beside the point.

Each puts down around 7kg of 28g shot daily, they’ve been coming here for 12 years, likely longer, but I wasn’t in the house further back.

Between these two fields, adjacent to each other, it’s probably 75 acres total coverage.

However, calculating the total lead shot dispersed over these arable fields, over the period, ignoring any deerstalking or driven days or rough shooting, equates to roughly 7 tons, but they don’t shoot Sundays, so let’s call it 5 tons of lead.

If you said to a farmer, I’m going to dump 2.5 tons of lead over your 37.5 acre field. Concentrated within 100yds of the edges (meaning the localised concentration levels are far higher),- the response would probably not be polite.

And if you didn't tell him, he wouldn't notice any difference. This is the point, people don't like the idea, but liking or not liking an idea is not the same as something being an actual problem or not.
All the lead banners are claiming there's a problem, but at the same time appear unable to demonstrate or quantify actual harms caused by lead projectiles. Consequently, if we stop using lead, any benefits will also be undetectable and unquantifiable.
That will obviously be worth all the angst, effort and cost involved.

 

[timbrayford]

And if you didn't tell him, he wouldn't notice any difference. This is the point, people don't like the idea, but liking or not liking an idea is not the same as something being an actual problem or not.
All the lead banners are claiming there's a problem, but at the same time appear unable to demonstrate or quantify actual harms caused by lead projectiles. Consequently, if we stop using lead, any benefits will also be undetectable and unquantifiable.
That will obviously be worth all the angst, effort and cost involved.

Funnily enough despite the huge numbers of lead projectiles that the military use on their ranges each year, many of which contain sensitive environmental areas such as SPAs and SSSIs , there's no timescale for a phase out there.

 

[25 Sharps]

Dont think a hectare is, that sounds very small

The confusion is 100 square metres or 100 metres squared, which is what a hectare is, 100x100 metres, so 10,000 square metres.

 

[25 Sharps]

Reading this, I was wondering how those who shoot musket type rifles (sharps, etc) which use a lead ball /projectile will fair when the ban comes in?
Same for some of the old rimmed cartridges like 45-70 / 444 / 44 magnum etc - as these often are 300+ gn projectiles and getting that weight in a copper projectile will make the resulting bullet very long.

Hornady do a 250 gr mono flex that works very well, also the most accurate bullet I’ve tried in my 45-70.

They do the same bullet in 140 and 160 gr .308 for 30-30, and a flat nosed 125 gr lead free bullet.