The costs of appeals

[Brithunter]

Nightmare!!!.... did your ticket get revoked and have they said you can't have your guns back?

They revoked on April 24th then later I got notice that they have refused to renew ................... both tickets were in for renewal.

I had not spoken to Firearms Licensing myself until yesterday Morning as solicitors were dealing with it. Now it seems I am left to deal with the mess myself. I have been promised that they will look into when my stuff will be returned but no mention of when that will be. As for my gun collection we don't know what is happening on that score or even what condition they are in. The police arrived with no means to safely transport them. Their idea was to simply piled them on top of one another in a Skoda Octavias boot. The idea of protection from damage did not enter their heads nor the fact that my collection would not fit into the cars boot. I did not have enough cases or slips to cover them all either but gave them all I had so I am very worried as to the damage caused and condition now of my collection.

 

[griffshrek]

BH

Correct me if I got this wrong had the police initially attended to recover the guns or only recovered them when they find a firearm not being kept under the FAC conditions then recover everything shooting related.

Was your nephew living with you at the time ? was this his bail address where he was to stay?

 

[Brithunter]

BH

Correct me if I got this wrong had the police initially attended to recover the guns or only recovered them when they find a firearm not being kept under the FAC conditions then recover everything shooting related.

Was your nephew living with you at the time ? was this his bail address where he was to stay?

My nephew is allowed to visit during the day this is not his bail address but one he allowed to visit during the day. He has a rented house in another town which is his bail address. The Police turned up at 21:10 to seize all my guns, no warning nothing, no mention what would happened had I been out no access to cabinets etc with me not here. I suspect they would have butchered the cabinets etc to get at the guns. Our property has no value to the and any damage is tough luck it seems.

 

[re'M'ington]

JOIN SACS!!!! They will take it on and you are covered on their insurance so it won't cost you a penny.

 

[flytie]

As a SACS member I am not so sure they will take on a current case. It is my belief from talking to Ian Clark at SACS that only issues that arise after membership would apply.

But I think I am correct in assuming that George Wallace, formally of BASC, now works for the NGO. I do not think there are many better qualified than him to advise you.

Simon

PS; SACS have legal cover of £100,000 in their policy for individual members.

 

[rh120]

Ho search warrent don,t let them in

 

[Gazza]

All legal processes cost, lawyers are not cheap whether it be an appeal in a Firearms Licensing decision or whatever. What matters is the questions "is there a basis for appeal and is there a high percentage of being successful" without this no matter how good SACS, BASCs or whoever may be there is no point in going to appeal. Having plead guilty to a breach of FAC conditions it may well be an uphill struggle with little chance of success. What advice has your solicitor and NGO given? Do you have a basis for an appeal?

 

[Brithunter]

Ho search warrent don,t let them in

It seems that being a FAC and SG certificate holder they do not need a Search warrant to force entry. When I wanted to make a phone call to get some advice and arrange for the RFD to collect the guns for storage that was when I was basically attacked by several officers.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

Is there a complaint lodged against them for this with the IPCC?

 

[Brithunter]

Is there a complaint lodged against them for this with the IPCC?

No as the advice from the legal team was that is would go against us in court................ but having seen the way a complaint is dealt with it's frankly a waste of time. My nephew has lodged a complaint with the IPCC and frankly nothing is being done about it except more hassles for him. Velkom to da state Komrade has more truth in it than one would like to think.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

Well that's rubbish surely. Where an abuse of power is concerned or protocol has not been followed from all that you have said do you not think that this would be a priority? If you won't complain then you accept that what happened must have been fair?

an armed Police officer standing so close to you and forcing you against a steel hand rail is just being polite even when forcing his forearm into you throat for asking to be allowed to make a phone call.

Due to this I will not be as active as I have to attend A&E and after that straighten up the mess these thugs have left and try and work out exactly what they have taken/stolen.

I say stolen as £50 cash has gone missing and a Pecar 3-7 scope cannot be found. It was packed up ready to be sent away for a re-build but the box is now empty and the scope cannot be found. The cash was in an OXO tin in the drawer of the mobile home and only the withdrawal slip remains.

Oh yes I forgot despite them supposedly knowing what I had their idea of safe moving the firearms was to pile them in the boot of a police car like cord wood. So they expected to fit 50+ firearms into the boot of a Skoda.

The bruising is coming out and a visit to A&E is planned for x-rays as I keep losing the feeling in my fingers. I fear they have cracked soemthing in my damaged wrist. As for sleeping I slept a lot of Saturday afternoon as I felt to ill.

I'm not going to tell you what to do but if that had been me and I was mistreated like this I'd have made sure that this behaviour and treatment was in the press, investigated and those involved diciplined. You're not going to get anything sorted by doing nothing but that is unless you feel their case is stronger than yours?

 

[Morgy]

I dont get why they were so heavy handed? What reason could they have had for that sort of conduct?

I would have thought at the very least, you would have to make a formal complaint to your Chief Constable and if not satisfied a complaint to the IPCC would have to follow, that may be a better route as others have suggested, and at least it will not cost you any money, whats the worst that can happen? You dont get your certificates back! but at least anything that doesnt require a certificate will have to be returned, as Paul and others have said you cant just let it go.

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/en/Pages/complaints.aspx

 

[christrott]

What would you need 50+ guns for and £800 of powder?

 

[matt_hooks]

Who said anything about "need" ?

The firearms acts specifically state that you do NOT need to prove "need" to hold a weapon, only "good reason". Granted, I think my imagination would struggle to come up with fifty "good reasons" but if the man has proved them, and has been allowed them, who are we to question?

As for the powder, why not? I know people who reload several different calibres (each with a different powder) and with powder prices what they are it's worth their while to purchase in bulk, it saves them money. Again, you might not "need" £800 worth of powder, but there's no reason in law why you can't have it, and there are plenty of good reasons why someone might hold such a stock.

 

[Brithunter]

What would you need 50+ guns for and £800 of powder?

You post makes me wonder if your not affiliated with the police and possibly even involved in this case... 6th post I notice

 

[Brithunter]

Well that's rubbish surely. Where an abuse of power is concerned or protocol has not been followed from all that you have said do you not think that this would be a priority? If you won't complain then you accept that what happened must have been fair?







I'm not going to tell you what to do but if that had been me and I was mistreated like this I'd have made sure that this behaviour and treatment was in the press, investigated and those involved diciplined. You're not going to get anything sorted by doing nothing but that is unless you feel their case is stronger than yours?

Paul I hope you never come on the wrong side of them as your faith in the justice system will be shattered.

I have followed legal advice and that was to make a complaint now will hamper and damage any defence in court. However having just spent several hours at the hospital things may have to change. most investigation is required as well as more tests but it seems when the forced my head onto the concrete this may have caused damage to my left eye which now has problems in the back of it. Hopefully more investigation and tests will reveal if this is the case or if it's not related to the injuries.

The Police investigate the Police and your expecting a fair investigation and hearing?

 

[cjm1066]

I feel for you.



Trouble is you and I suspect the Police are now at an impasse. You can’t afford an appeal, they are anticipating one.


Perhaps, ask them when they would accept a new application for your certificates if you formally dropped the appeal/legal actions. I know it’s not an option you desire or is necessarily right, but it puts to one side the existing situation and allows everyone to move on.

 

[Taff]

I have no axe to grind,but have you asked for a meeting with the chief constable, to get a full explanation of why they visited you that night. You need to send him a list of question for which you want answers. Reading your posts you lost your license for breech of firearms law, there is no such thing as a minor breech, gun left out when a full scale raid is taking place is not a good idea. Having had a police raid on a friends house (when his ex wife said he was going to shoot her new boyfriend) proven to be a false claim after investigation.still took two years to get his license back. The police will always remove the firearms to rfd, but not allow you to take them as they know you will be in a highly charged state.
As to the force used against you, unless you do exactly as they say this is the norm, ask anyone who was at parliament square.
And no I am not a member of the constabulary or any links to them.
And remember just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

I have been to court on firearms related charges that were later dropped. I paid for my solicitor and went throuh the process. The police simply do a job and the court system is there to then measure the evidence. While to me the whole issue was a stupid misunderstanding I still had to go through the process. In my experience of the system while I had to pay money to get it sorted, there was a need to investigate the charges which needs to be done when it is in relation to firearms. I would expect no less than this. Having a co-operative and open attitude helps though especially when those investigating recognise you are not a psycho and are actually a respectable member of society.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

You post makes me wonder if your not affiliated with the police and possibly even involved in this case... 6th post I notice

Chris is a lad that did Level 1 with me last year. It was a fair comment really from a youngster...