The weather

[260madman]

 

[TringSaint]

Actually that is the very opposite of basic physics. Systems tend to try and return to the state from which they started out. The truth is that if you do something physics tends to act to cancel it out, generally speaking all feedbacks are negative and systems with multiple degrees of freedom don't have "tipping points" where they pass a certain point and don't return whence they came.

Physics says that the universe will fight almost everything you try to do as best it can and, on the grand scale of things, you'll have no effect at all.

That’s not quite true.
Yes I’m some cases you get equal an opposite reactions but what we are looking at with the burning of fossil fuels falls into the laws of thermodynamics and the hanging of state of matter from one form to another.

Matter cannot be created, only converted from one form to another. In the context of fossil fuels, co2 was absorbed by plants and that, in part absorbed by animals, they died and were fossilised over millions of years trapping that carbon deep underground. We go and dig it up and burn it releasing once trapped carbon back into the atmosphere.

The carbon was already there and has been here since the Big Bang (no, god didn’t put it all there!) but the time in the planet’s existence when all of that carbon was gaseous was a time when humans simply couldn’t have survived - too hot and too humid.

So by our own actions we are effectively reverting the fossilisation process and that will have an impact, taking the planet back to a state that it once had.

The only ways to alleviate this are:
- Get rid of at least half the human population, probably more
- plant millions of trees every year and use them to soak up the extra co2
- stop burning more fossil fuels to limit the additional co2 going into the atmosphere

If you don’t do any of these (and one isn’t realistic) then it will only get worse as the carbon isn’t going anywhere. It’s here for good so we either lock it away in trees or stop using what’s underground, else we will end up in a place that no one here will be able to survive in as our bodies can’t cope with very high temperatures and humidity.

 

[glasshalffull]

Who cares, eat drink and be happy

 

[Dunwaters]

There is a lot of science about this if you want to find it.
Fortunately there are enough of us who do give a toss and who will push for change because we believe that all we hold precious could be destroyed by our actions.

Your position is based on belief.
That makes it an ideology or a religion.
I don’t fully subscribe to your beliefs but I’m happy to respect your position and let you follow the dictates of your beliefs provided you are willing to accord me the same courtesy.

 

[Taff]

Fortunately there are enough of us who do give a toss and who will push for change because we believe that all we hold precious could be destroyed by our actions.

I can only assume you are doing your bit, as in no children ( to avoid over population) no vehicle , even public transport, no form of heating or electrical appliances, because renewables are just as polluting, just green washed.
What your actually trying to do is save the status quo, the planet will survive way beyond mankind.

 

[Mungo]

Pretty sure.
If its empty then by definition its not an ecological niche.
If life was possible it would be there.

So there’s a very long and complex history of investigation into this.

First, your statement that ‘if it’s empty then by definition it’s not an ecological niche’ is untrue.

As a fairly simple example, many islands often lack whole groups of organisms simply because they haven’t arrived yet. The niches clearly exist because they’re quickly occupied once appropriate organisms arrive. Near at home in the UK, an obvious example is the historical absence of small predators and rodents from most of the offshore islands, or the absence of snakes from Ireland.

The consensus is that it can take millions (or tens of millions) of years for evolution to fill vacant niches. It can go quicker, but it can also just… not. And what evolves can often be radically different from what was once there.

 

[Dunwaters]

So there’s a very long and complex history of investigation into this.

First, your statement that ‘if it’s empty then by definition it’s not an ecological niche’ is untrue.

As a fairly simple example, many islands often lack whole groups of organisms simply because they haven’t arrived yet. The niches clearly exist because they’re quickly occupied once appropriate organisms arrive. Near at home in the UK, an obvious example is the historical absence of small predators and rodents from most of the offshore islands, or the absence of snakes from Ireland.

The consensus is that it can take millions (or tens of millions) of years for evolution to fill vacant niches. It can go quicker, but it can also just… not. And what evolves can often be radically different from what was once there.

Fair point, well made.

 

[TringSaint]

I can only assume you are doing your bit, as in no children ( to avoid over population) no vehicle , even public transport, no form of heating or electrical appliances, because renewables are just as polluting, just green washed.
What your actually trying to do is save the status quo, the planet will survive way beyond mankind.

I have kids and a car. I also have solar panels, I plant trees on my land, I only buy stuff when I need to, I drive a little as I have to and I use public transport when possible.

You don’t have to be a monk, but equally not just live like it’s someone else’s problem.

 

[TringSaint]

Your position is based on belief.
That makes it an ideology or a religion.
I don’t fully subscribe to your beliefs but I’m happy to respect your position and let you follow the dictates of your beliefs provided you are willing to accord me the same courtesy.

No, it is not a religion.

If I burn 1kg of coal or oil then I will push the carbon in that material into the atmosphere either as CO or CO2. That co2 then gets absorbed by trees and plants and becomes locked away.
But if I burn 100 million kg of coal and the plants can only absorb and lock away half of that, then the other half just floats around the planet. Do that year on year for decades, and at the same time cut down loads of trees (and I mean billions of them) then the delta between emissions and absorption grows, resulting in co2 levels rising.

Given that co2, along with ch4, are the two most potent greenhouse gasses, it’s not rocket science to work out that an increasing co2 concentration in the atmosphere will have an affect.

So which part of that do you not agree with, cos it’s all very simple science.

The only question that really remains is how much of an affect does the co2 have and what are the effects of increased co2 in the atmosphere on our weather. That is the bit the scientists (not religious whack heads) are trying to work out (and they are doing it live, as it happens, every day).

So to call it a religion or a cult is disingenuous and merely suggests that it’s an inconvenience to you to have to moderate your lifestyle and for that reason alone you believe it’s rubbish.

Do what you will - I don’t give a toss about you personally, but I do care about my environment and what sort of legacy we will leave for future generations.

 

[caorach]

That’s not quite true.
Yes I’m some cases you get equal an opposite reactions but what we are looking at with the burning of fossil fuels falls into the laws of thermodynamics and the hanging of state of matter from one form to another.

Matter cannot be created, only converted from one form to another. In the context of fossil fuels, co2 was absorbed by plants and that, in part absorbed by animals, they died and were fossilised over millions of years trapping that carbon deep underground. We go and dig it up and burn it releasing once trapped carbon back into the atmosphere.

The carbon was already there and has been here since the Big Bang (no, god didn’t put it all there!) but the time in the planet’s existence when all of that carbon was gaseous was a time when humans simply couldn’t have survived - too hot and too humid.

So by our own actions we are effectively reverting the fossilisation process and that will have an impact, taking the planet back to a state that it once had.

The only ways to alleviate this are:
- Get rid of at least half the human population, probably more
- plant millions of trees every year and use them to soak up the extra co2
- stop burning more fossil fuels to limit the additional co2 going into the atmosphere

If you don’t do any of these (and one isn’t realistic) then it will only get worse as the carbon isn’t going anywhere. It’s here for good so we either lock it away in trees or stop using what’s underground, else we will end up in a place that no one here will be able to survive in as our bodies can’t cope with very high temperatures and humidity.

Bladerdash.

 

[User00035]

I live in the north east. What's this hot weather everyone keeps talking about?

 

[Heym SR20]

One area which we absolutely decimated is the sea bed. This is out of sight and out of mind to vast majority of us.

Large scale sea bed commercial trawling has absolutely wrecked this ecosystem and seabeds on our continental shelf is a barren desert.

Yet the kelp forests grow very rapidly and there is fantastic transport system ( the ocean currents) that would carry lots of seed to repopulate.

However whilst we continue to allow large commercial sea be trawlers it will never have a chance.

Once the seabed recovers kelp and other seaweeds act as a massive carbon sink. They grow very rapidly - much quicker than any tree. When they break away and die, some will get deposited on beaches and decompose, but a lot will end up at the bottom of the deep sea where carbon is licked away.

Cost of buying out big commercial trawlers would be a fraction of the cost rewilding.

IMHO one of the real benefits of the offshore windfarms is the very large areas of the sea bed that are no prohibited to any form of boat access. There is a 1 nautical mile exclusion zone around them that is enforced - all of them have guard boats that chase away anything that wants to get close.

There will be plenty of electric field around the power cables - think the high voltage power lines humming - which will have an effect, but these areas will act as conservation zones.

 

[TringSaint]

Bladerdash.

Well, thank you for your valued input, Professor Moron!

 

[andy R204]

I live in the north east. What's this hot weather everyone keeps talking about?

been flooded out since Saturday.Same forecast this weekend

 

[User00035]

been flooded out since Saturday.Same forecast this weekend

Flash floods around here too (Consett). Monsoon-like rain on the A69 driving into Newcastle yesterday afternoon. Couldn't see ten yards ahead. Many drivers pulled into lay-bys to wait it out.

Still plenty of people walking around North Shields in shorts and vests though. They don't mind a bit of watter in the Toon..

 

[caorach]

Well, thank you for your valued input, Professor Moron!

I'm sorry, but when you produce a stream of english words in meaningless sentences this is the only useful reply. I could have said something like "My mouse hedgehog has hoovered an accretion disk under the Titanic and exceeded the Eddington Luminosity" but it would add nothing to the discussion and might give some to think you'd said something in English that i could understand or that had actual physical meaning.

It must be said that the doom cult doesn't half produce some weird chants.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Bloody media trying to control us again
Absolute bull**** and folk are swallowing it in bulk.

The Med area is hot in summer
What a surprise ! The red maps also boil my ****.

The biggest problem we face isn’t the weather, it’s media companies trying to prove that they rule the world , not governments.

 

[TringSaint]

I'm sorry, but when you produce a stream of english words in meaningless sentences this is the only useful reply. I could have said something like "My mouse hedgehog has hoovered an accretion disk under the Titanic and exceeded the Eddington Luminosity" but it would add nothing to the discussion and might give some to think you'd said something in English that i could understand or that had actual physical meaning.

It must be said that the doom cult doesn't half produce some weird chants.

Go and read a physics book, specifically one that talks about the laws of thermodynamics.

Don’t just call facts balderdash because you don’t understand it. Educate yourself and then make informed decisions.

I will get you started: if you have one atom of carbon then it cannot be altered, destroyed or another one created from it. All you can do is to change its state (solid/liquid/gas) or combine it with another atom, let’s say oxygen, to make a compound, eg carbon dioxide (this happens when we burn carbon based fuels)

The only time we change the composition of an atom is in nuclear fission where we split uranium into two other atoms, a few neutrons and a lot of heat, but still nothing is lost because the resulting bits make up the same amount of atomic material as you started with.
And, no, we can’t split carbon atoms as far as I am aware.

 

[User00035]

Bloody media trying to control us again
Absolute bull**** and folk are swallowing it in bulk.

The Med area is hot in summer
What a surprise ! The red maps also boil my ****.

The biggest problem we face isn’t the weather, it’s media companies trying to prove that they rule the world , not governments.

There were BBC correspondents on TV last summer reporting from resorts on the south coast that temperatures were already (at lunch time) 23 degrees and warning viewers as though they were children about the dangers of "extreme heat"..
If I went on a seaside holiday I'd be disappointed if 23 degrees was as warm as it got. Add in a sea breeze and that's on the cool side.

That was another nail in the BBC's coffin for me and one more reason for boycotting the BBC and withdrawing my licence fee.

 

[Smellydog]

I've been on this planet for 56 years and the weather isn't really any different now as when I were a lad!
Most of them 56 years have been ok, except for when experts and governments have got in my way!