Moderator failure

[rwade545]

Thought I would get your collective thoughts on this.
Obviously this is my side of the story but would appreciate your expertise. I already have discussed this with a few gunsmiths and they have given their views.

Story- custom 6.5prc, carbon barrel, custom action, PSE stock- no expense spares as I like my kit!
Due to carbon barrel being 0.96” Decided to splash out on a custom mod. Told would have less space inside but would be good for 6.5prc pressure as survived 10 000 rounds in testing.Mod arrived and despite it being a special order the rear was not to size to fit over barrel, sent back and re machined to fit at measured 0.98” giving 0.010 of barrel clearance on each side. Snug I know.

Rifle cleaned, de oiled and bore sighted and off to a booked long range day.

First shot of factory Hornady , really loud compared to others rifle I have shot and sparking muzzle flash. Thought best have a look down- moderator baffle was hanging down. £700 for 1shot mod! And a wasted range day.

Bore scope down moderator from muzzle shows baffles deformed back towards the rifle muzzle as per photo. Now bore in 6.5mm, end of moderators 8.2mm so plenty of clearance. Only 0.010” around the over barrel part of moderator to barrel so defiantly concentric threading ( checked when done to 0.0005”)

Sent back and to manufacturer who claimed baffle strike- despite metal around the baffle deformed and bent back towards the muzzle of rifle. From my experience of bullets they bend things in the direction of travel not back. And if that significant a baffle strike would expect the bullet to then damage end of moderator or deform inside moderator and completely destroy it but not a mark on muzzle of moderator.

Sent back and now being told it’s all happens because I did not have the soft plastic bushing installed at the rear of moderator to centralise it. My understanding is a moderator is set of the square shoulder at the back of the threads. Also no bushing was supplied.

Have been the recipient of quite unsavoury messages when I have pointed the above out and even did the maths to calculated that with the size of the moderator hole sand the distance of the damaged baffle in front of the muzzle compared to the amount the moderator extends back over the barrel it is a physical impossibility by around 0.060” of moderator movement at the rear of it being able for a bullet to strike/ touch a baffle. ( remember only 0.010 of clearance there)

Told “it’s a mistake that is clearly yours” for not having the not supplied bushing machines and installed to centralise.

First photo is machining of thread section of moderator ( poor and uneven from rifle muzzle end and would not have been subjected to rifle blast)

Next photos are looking from muzzle in direction of bullet travel then damaged baffles ( blowed back towards rifle muzzle) then exit of moderator which has undamaged baffle and exit.

Not naming moderator at present as way things are going will end up with trading standards as relationship has broken down and have already had to have it made right once for it to them fail after one shot, not to mention risk if I had not done a safety check after that shot. Could have been significant injury. Lost faith and do not want a “free repair” or to send my rifle to him “to make right” after seeing the quality of machining. Requested a refund which I feel would be appropriate.

Over to you. And thanks for reading my story.

 

[rwade545]

Photos

 

[rwade545]

End of mod

 

[Jax]

Not the first time I’ve heard of a LP mod being off centre.

I’ve used LP and MAE T12 mods without the bushing with no issue. The bushing isn’t meant to touch the barrel anyway. Always thought they were there to help centre the mod when putting it on and offer some protection to the barrel.

I’m no expert on mods, but the bent baffle looks quite thin.

 

[TringSaint]

Eek! That isn’t good.
Firstly, if the mod is designed for a 6.5mm bullet then it should have sufficient tollerances to prevent bullets striking the baffles with or without a bush in place (none of my mods use bushes and 2 rifles are factory screw cut, so likely not the best quality). I have also had mods loosen up after a few shots and needed 1/10th if a turn to retighten, and the worst I got was a couple of wayward shots as the mod was wobbling whilst the bullet travelled though it.

The baffle being bent backwards towards the muzzle does suggest that the pressure in that chamber was too high and has simply blown it back to save blowing the mod to bits.

I’m assuming that the rifle didn’t try to jump forwards out of your hands when the shot was taken? This would have been what I would have expected following a muzzle strike.

I don’t know the best solution here but if the manufacturer is being a bit of an arse then I would offer him the chance to refund you else you will take the matter to trading standards and the HSE, as this could have resulted in metal being sprayed out from your rifle across other range users.

 

[stalker.308]

Not the first time I’ve heard of a LP mod being off centre.

I’ve used LP and MAE T12 mods without the bushing with no issue. The bushing isn’t meant to touch the barrel anyway. Always thought they were there to help centre the mod when putting it on and offer some protection to the barrel.

I’m no expert on mods, but the bent baffle looks quite thin.

I damaged my bushing once on a mae t12 and before a new one arrive they said just don’t bash it against anything at the base of the mod as thats all it’s there for.

LP- my only experience is a mod arriving significantly not as advertised- returned it unfired (and unquestioned) for a full refund.

 

[Longstrider]

Simple physics and a basic understanding of engineering suggests to me that the mod simply couldn't handle the internal pressure created by the shot and blew a baffle that was a section of a cone (tapering forwards) in-side-out so it now tapers backwards with evidence of the flexing and 'trauma' it suffered in being made to do so.

All in .. it failed. In the circumstances I think a full refund and a grovelling apology are due to you.

 

[Eddie P]

The rear bush is to stop damage if you smack it hard and also to stop it cross-threading when started on the thread.

 

[User00040]

Hope its not an F&D mod (fire and deaf)...

 

[Jax]

I had a similar experience with a rifle I had built a few years back. After giving the smith a chance to rectify and the rifle still having issues I had to send numerous letters highlighting the problems and I got an independent report of the issues which I sent to the smith. I reported to trading standards if I recall correctly and got a case number. TS directed me to the correct legislation to quote in the letters I sent. I think it was the consumer rights act 2015.

After pushing the matter and mentioning legal action, I eventually got a refund.

Do you still have the mod? Perhaps you could get a smith to review it. Would a proof house be able to inspect? I assume the mod has proof marks?

 

[TringSaint]

Pretty sure that any forensic analysis of the mod would clearly show the cause of the failure and it the manufacturer even suspects that it’s an error on their side then then should immediately refund, as any external report that showed a manufacturing error would be far more damaging for their reputation and balance sheet!!

 

[stalker.308]

I had a similar experience with a rifle I had built a few years back. After giving the smith a chance to rectify and the rifle still having issues I had to send numerous letters highlighting the problems and I got an independent report of the issues which I sent to the smith. I reported to trading standards if I recall correctly and got a case number. TS directed me to the correct legislation to quote in the letters I sent. I think it was the consumer rights act 2015.

After pushing the matter and mentioning legal action, I eventually got a refund.

Do you still have the mod? Perhaps you could get a smith to review it. Would a proof house be able to inspect? I assume the mod has proof marks?

Reading the op post, he sent it back and received unsavoury messages. But if he’s not receiving a refund it’s still his property so an independent report would be in order, and mightily interesting

 

[aris]

Send the serial number to the relevant proof house and check to see if it was indeed proofed. I'm wondering if they re proofed it after you send it back and it was re machined. Legally, I suspect it should have as a material change had taken place.

 

[Tim.243]

Love my T8's on the Rem 700's

 

[rwade545]

Hi at time of purchase was informed “ it’s a mod it doesn’t need to go to proof”
had 3 gun smith review my borescope video with the open question of what happened and all thought pressure not strike.
I’m up to date on trading standards and have quoted legislation.
Wonder if manufacture will be open to sending it to proof house for examination or if they offer this service?

 

[ruger77]

Go to trading standards web page fill in the template, Letter of intent to take court proceedings that gives them 14 days to reply good luck

 

[aris]

Birmingham proof house do such forensics according to their web page.

 

[Jax]

Hi at time of purchase was informed “ it’s a mod it doesn’t need to go to proof”
had 3 gun smith review my borescope video with the open question of what happened and all thought pressure not strike.
I’m up to date on trading standards and have quoted legislation.
Wonder if manufacture will be open to sending it to proof house for examination or if they offer this service?

Someone with more knowledge than me can hopefully comment. I seem to recall new rules coming in a couple(?) of years back saying that all pressure bearing parts of a firearm, including the mod, must have a serial number or be proofed or something like that. Not sure if that helps or not, but could be worth looking in to

 

[User00048]

I use every single one of my wildcat mods without the supplied rear bush in use. Never had this issue or even a strike/clip. Like the others state, it's not an issue caused by the bush not being used, it isn't a requirement, although it can be a helpful guide. Unless you ram the thread on it angled in an angry manner with force and cause an angle that would feel obvious whilst doing it by hand, tight and forced.. I don't see how this would happen from that. It's definitely pressure.

 

[aris]

Some months ago I inquired about a wildcat mod with a thread they did not stock - they told me that they could make it for me but it it would need to be proofed on my rifle as the proof house didn't have a slave barrel in my thread (which I found surprising as it is a British rifle). So a large commercial manufacturer of moderators seem to think they need to be proofed. Maybe the proof house could confirm.