tight as a ducks ****

[norma 308]

If these five guys have paid for the outing/outings then

1 shared the fuel costs to get there
2 beer/drink money
3 few quid for some dinner
4 extra amunition/supplies just to be on the safe side
5 then purchased nearly all the venison and even at dealers rates thats going to be a good few quid.
Lets say they purchased 10 fallow prickets at 70 quid each and 2 muntjac at a tenner each i will let you do the maths

Looks like the poor tip probably resulted from them having no money left if they were guys with just average jobs.
ATB
RICK O SHEA

i think on reflection you are probably right rick ....they certainly wont be hungry for a while anyway
CAN WE SAY TIPPING IS A CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT THEN .with over 2,600 hits probably my most looked at post
i will continue to tip those of you that dont thats your choice chaps sorry to have offended some of you .

 

[Chanty Wrassler]

chaps sorry to have offended some of you .

I dont think you have offended anyone. Some people have strong (and sincerely held) views for or against and most people would agree that a lot depends on the circumstances.

One aspect I am unhappy about is employers paying low wages on the basis that employees will get tips from the customer. There's also the tax implications. To put £30 into someone's pay poke means paying them about £45 before deduction of income tax at standard rate and Employee's NI contribution; by the time the employer pays the Employers' NI contribution this is now costing him £50, and if he has to up his price to cover this then VAT at 20% is another £10 so the customer is now paying an extra £60, the taxman gets £30, same as the poor old employee! This is more an observation on the general level of taxation in the UK than anything else

 

[caorach]

I have found that a lot of people think that they are not well enough paid for the job they do. This might be correct. I am willing to bet that a fair proportion of those people get paid more than £100 per day which is often what it costs for a morning and evening stalk on non-trophy animals.

Any stalkers that I have been out with on paid days have always worked hard, usually very hard, and have usually had long days of at least 12 hours and often more. Most people work 9 - 5 and think their hours long, and complain that they don't get paid enough for it. I've never heard a stalker complain that if I didn't shoot something soon it was near his knocking off time and I'd be on my own, nor has one ever asked me not to shoot a deer late on in the day because it was near his finishing time and he didn't want to spend all night in the larder.

I have also had a great education from the stalkers I have been out with on paid days and often what I learn on the day is of more value than the actual shot at a deer, a bit like giving a man a bottle of water will allow him to drink for a day but teaching him to dig a well will provide him with water for life.

Based on that, and that I know approx what the stalker gets paid for a day, I like to try and ensure that he doesn't work for anything less for the day than I do for one of my working days. I'm not rich by any means and so I can't afford to be taking paid days as a regular thing but in view of the value of the days to me I think it only right that I tip such that I have a reasonable expectation that the stalker will earn what I would have earned for a days work. In truth the stalker also has to pay fuel, insurance, tax, pension and probably a raft of other things. However, I always feel that my stalking days including a tip, while very expensive indeed for me in terms of my disposable income for the year, are good value.

It does mean that if the stalker were to let me shoot the best head on the estate I probably couldn't afford to tip any more than if I were to shoot a hind in winter but it also means that what I tip is in recognition of the hard work the stalker puts into a day no matter whether the deer play ball or not. Why should I expect someone with the skills, knowledge, experience and work ethic of a good stalker to earn less for a long day at work than I do?

 

[baguio]

I'd have given them it back, I'd be feeling better than if I'd accepted it and looked forward to them TRYING to book again!

 

[baguio]

how do 5 guys come up with £30!?
that is not even possible unless you are looking under the car seat for change!

Oh please! How many combinations can we come up with? I will start us off, one gives £30 and four give none: one gives £20 one £10 and 3 give nothing..... and so it goes on..............

You know what they say : there are only three types of people in this world, those that are good at maths and those that aren't!

 

[Dalua]

I'd have given them it back

I think if all you had done for these Rifles is drive them to their high-seats and collected the carcasses, then that would have been the honourable thing to do, especially if the tip had been larger.

I find few things more distressing than after a good day's shooting/stalking, for which I will have paid handsomely, than to think that some grasping rustic wide-boy is whinging because he'd failed to separate me from even more money for him to thrust undeclared and therefore untaxed into his pocket.

By all means decline any gratuity offered, tell me you won't have me back, whatever you like; I have broad shoulders. But if you accept a tip, do so in the spirit in which it was offered. Something is surely better than nothing, you will most likely know nothing of the financial circumstances of your guest, what you guess is not necessarily going to be right, and if you stop to think about it you will realise that he will probably have to do £20-worth of work to have earned every £10 he hands out.
All that quite apart from that fact that his paying for the shooting/stalking has already contributed a fair bit towards the salary you're earning to do the work for which you think a tip might additionally be due.

Harrumph!

 

[Claret_Dabbler]

It was largely me who kicked off the fight back on this one. I would concede that there are times when a decent tip is appropriate. Funnily enough, game shooting and restaurants are not places that come to mind. The is an expensive shoot here locally where the owner is also the shoot manager and keeper. He is not shy about standing with his hand out for £30-£40 after a days shooting that the guns have already paid £500 plus each for.

In this case what ****ed me off is that five guys who on the face of it conducted themselves perfectly well are getting slagged off with no chance to defend themselves.

I think the answer is that there should be a clear price for a service with no hidden extras.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Is it just me,, or do some seem to think that because you can afford to pay the stalking fees in the first place, you should be well enough off to throw more cash about for fun!!

This day might have cost all the cash these bloke could afford, I hope they see this thread and reply !.
No wonder stalkings being priced out of reach.

 

[norma 308]

Is it just me,, or do some seem to think that because you can afford to pay the stalking fees in the first place, you should be well enough off to throw more cash about for fun!!

This day might have cost all the cash these bloke could afford, I hope they see this thread and reply !.
No wonder stalkings being priced out of reach.

the stalking fees are probably as cheap as anywhere mate i think for £60 a stalk, shoot as many cull animals as you find reasonable would be to most who peruse this forum acceptable tipping the keepers is an option some dont want to , your choice !i think we have established now that tipping is not everyones cup of tea and that this thread could go on and on and on ........the guys we took out on the same estate yesterday loved it and have offered some roe stalking near s shields ....very nice nice to be appriciated

 

[bally]

tips

it would be nice to know what would be put down on tax returns when the keepers are asked next time he fills in his returns
there may be some tax returns officer reading these threads and after hearing the amount of tips given and expected
watch out boys you may have a large estimated bill to deny

 

[kieran222]

It seems stalking is a bit like booking a Ryanair flight, it looks cheap at first but you don’t know what it is going to cost until you have paid for it. It would be better to know the full price up front and what tips are expected (if they are). I realise that there would probably be tax issues with stating what tips are expected but then if they are expected they should be considered as part of the payment and probably taxable.

 

[hottopic]

It is the way with most stalkers we come accross. We only charge £80 per outing on roe does to inc. one cull and the stalker very rarely gets a tip. When we have shoot parties it is a differnt story.

For a great weekend like that they could have at least streched to to £40 each! That still makes it only £100 for the stalking, not bad. Tight buggers.

 

[Dalua]

For a great weekend like that they could have at least streched to to £40 each! That still makes it only £100 for the stalking, not bad. Tight buggers.

This raised the two thinks we're not yet clear on:
1. They were out two days at £60 per stalk - does that mean £240 per rifle for the two days?
2. What exactly had these keepers done for the Rifles to make them worthy of more tips than those offered (and accepted, I might add).

On the face of it, 19 beasts in two days sounds staggering: 19 beasts in 20 stalks markedly less so!

 

[Tamus]

I always check first, by asking in a discreet manner, what sort/size of tip is likely to be expected and deemed adequate. It's not hard to do and avoids a lot of the sort of issues we've had here.

I don't think I've ever offended by under tipping but there are one or two places I have declined invitation to go back to (it works both ways you know)

 

[wboulter]

when i booked to go stalking i was told it was £40 per day tip no limt on the number of deer we could shoot i shot 9 deer in five days the keepers work hard for little reward

 

[basil]

[QUOTE the keepers work hard for little reward[/QUOTE]
So do most of the population of this country.

 

[bobthedug]

Just to play Devils Advocate here.

What if these guys who have been slated on here for not tipping the "expected " amount are normally generous tippers and the conduct of one of the keepers resulted in the measly tip.

Did anyone ask?

 

[Tamus]

Just to play Devils Advocate here.

What if these guys who have been slated on here for not tipping the "expected " amount are normally generous tippers and the conduct of one of the keepers resulted in the measly tip.

Did anyone ask?

Och! where would be the fun in an answer to a sensible question like that...?

78 posts and about 3,500 views in three days don't happen when facts get in the way of speculative spouting.

 

[Brithunter]

Seems I must live in another world to a lot lot posters here when I book stalking it takes weeks to save up for and I often have to pass up chances because the spied beast is way outta my pockets reach. I try to pick where I go carefully because of this and those I have used understand, or seem to have done so far. I know John did in fact so I could take that nice 6 point Roe we cancelled the evenings stalking outing so the money for that could go towards paying the fees for the Buck. This is the very reason I do not stalk as often as I would wish possible.

Looking at some prices for Scottish stalking if I spent nothing on anything else is would currently take about 6 weeks to save enough of one outing after a Stag. Searching the web I see most estates and agents do not give prices one must enquire. The few priced ones I found are quite frankly living on another planet.

In fact the last couple of rifles I acquire for the collection cost less than a days Roe stalking.

 

[caorach]

Looking at some prices for Scottish stalking if I spent nothing on anything else is would currently take about 6 weeks to save enough of one outing after a Stag. Searching the web I see most estates and agents do not give prices one must enquire. The few priced ones I found are quite frankly living on another planet.

I happen to disagree with this but first of all must state that I'm not rich and I usually manage to save up enough for about 4 paid days per year which is usually 2 days at hinds and 2 at stags.

Stag prices seem to vary between £350 and £450 per stag or day depending on how you look at it. Now it depends on how the estate is charging and if it is a contract stalker and so on but the estate are probably getting about £250 or so for their stag. On the estates I might stalk in the Hebrides cull figures are usually around 30 stags per year which means the estate "makes" around £7500 per year from their main crop. When you factor in the capital cost of the land, the cost of maintaining the tracks, the cost of keeping the quad or argo or Land Rover going and so on I suspect that you will find that, certainly the estates I've stalked on, are subsidising my day to a considerable degree. Even if you allow for the sale of venison I can't see how their stalking comes anywhere close to paying for itself.

I appreciate that lowland stalking may be different and all you may be paying for there is the time of the stalker as he might be stalking the ground at little cost to him as part of a management exercise and so on. However, although hill stalking for reds is, from my perspective, very expensive and I can only afford a few trips per year when compared to the cost of running the estate that I "hire" for a few days I pay a relatively small contribution towards the costs.