tight as a ducks ****

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caorach .................... exactly £450 for one Stag if I didn't spend any money that is more than a months income. And no I am not joking. For the price of one Stag one can take 4 flights to the Mid West USA and back. Yet again it seems that if I had the money I could spend two weeks hunting Whitetail deer for the price of one Scottish Stag. Yes I have just checked the price of the flights on expedia. ON US Airways it's £438 return to St Louis Missouri.

As it is there is almost no chance that I can ever Stalk Reds in Scotland as it so way beyond my pocket it's unreal.
 
Sorry BH, I didn't mean my comments to be any reflection on your, or for that matter my, ability to pay for red stags but rather to point out that even at £450 I suspect most estates are running at a loss so in those terms it is good value for money as we are being subsidised by a significant amount. Depending on the estate you stalk I guess it is about the only way on earth us mere mortals can get a handout from a banker! As you rightly point out, however, this doesn't matter if you don't have £450 sitting around which, in the current climate, very few of us do.

In saying that it is always worth considering taking a day at hinds as the normal rate is usually about £150 per day, so very similar to the rate for two stalks at a lowland species, and on some estates they might let you shoot more than one hind per day. If you haven't had a day for red deer before it really is worth saving up and giving it a try.
 
caorach,

It's OK I am not offended by any means. My situation is rather different as I am tied to caring for my parents so get the minimum the state says is needed to live on. As both are prone to falls leaving them alone is not an option so even arranging a day out means finding someone to be here and cover for me. Which is why I am so often near the computer. Dad cannot get out hardly now so I am stuck indoors. Back in 2003 it was different as I was working F/T even with O/T available. We shall see how things go over the winter and plan ahead if it looks feasible. There are many in my situation around the country so I am not alone in this.
 
Sounds like you do a fantastic job there sir. :tiphat: I hope I could do the same if needed for my parents.

Matt
 
this has certanly put the cat amonst the birds,it may have allready been said ,forgive me if it has,but in these harsh economic times many are lucky to have jobs ,so to look at it in another light why not be gratefull of the gents for there custom and be gratefull,because beleive me if there was no one coming for the shooting and giving some income the said keepers may have no job or cottage,just my opinium!
 
As my earlier post i think they should be thankful the have jobs and we support the sport... banks and some firms have ditched shooting as a perk?
 
What about this one then...

I am kind of poaching a mates experience here but it is relevant to the subject of tips.

A day at the does is booked by a client. No real expectation or numbers given but if it was me offering a day I would be telling a client anything between 1 and 3 (hopefully) would be a good day out. The guest shot 10 and offered a £5 tip...

I am sure anyone on here would agree, that is an exceptional day in anyones book at Roe.

Now the point I make is, my mate needed deer shot and a price for the day out was agreed on with no cost per beast, simply a shot fee if one taken over the outing fee and a reasonable expectation of between 1-3 (hopefully) but not suggested by my mate, just a knowledge that the ground holds a lot of deer.

So, for anyone who does not think that a tip is necessary because other jobs do not incur gratuities, and a price has already been paid, who would not have readily offered a more deserving tip?
 
I think it would depend on the circumstances. I tip the stalker when I stalk as a paying guest on an estate, and as far as I can tell this is a throwback to the days when guests tipped other people's servants when those servants were working not for their master, but for the guest.

If I went out with someone whose business is for a fee to take people out after deer, then I think perhaps I would not be inclined to offer a tip, unless it was clearly set out in the terms of business that it was expected.

Perhaps this chap would also have tipped £100 if he could have afforded it; but in fact he could afford £5, and would have given that tip deer or no deer. Who knows?

As you say, your mate needed deer shot and his client shot 10. Perhaps he then should have tipped the client, especially if the client also helped with extraction and larder work.
 
So if the case is the more you shoot the more you tip then surly if he hadn't shot any deer the day should have been free. Yes this was a particularly excellent day but like we all know with stalking could have been so different but would have still had to pay the fees.

I think it's niave to judge others on something witch isn't a requirement it's a gesture some people can easily afford £100+. But I for sure would think more of someone offering there last £5 than someone who money has no object handing over £100+. We all have different budgets, problems and other factors contributing to what we can afford.
 
Dalua said:
As you say, your mate needed deer shot and his client shot 10. Perhaps he then should have tipped the client, especially if the client also helped with extraction and larder work.
Click to expand...

Now I know you are having a laugh!!! :shock:

You don't think as guides we enjoy shooting or stalking deer ourselves?

The point I was making, was that to allow a guest to carry on stalking after a reasonable number had been shot, in my opinion should have been rewarded.

What about the suggestion that if the guest knew he had had an exceptional day after 5, he perhaps offered to call it a day and thank the stalker for wonderful sport had so far? I don't think I know anyone who would do that :rofl:

However, if you keep squeezing the trigger, there is a point where you just know deep down a reward should be offered.

No-one would realistically have expected that kind of sport in a day and in my opinion, they should be able to dig up at least £20 tip for that day out!!!
 
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davidm said:
So if the case is the more you shoot the more you tip then surly if he hadn't shot any deer the day should have been free. Yes this was a particularly excellent day but like we all know with stalking could have been so different but would have still had to pay the fees.

I think it's niave to judge others on something witch isn't a requirement it's a gesture some people can easily afford £100+. But I for sure would think more of someone offering there last £5 than someone who money has no object handing over £100+. We all have different budgets, problems and other factors contributing to what we can afford.
Click to expand...

That part of the would have been free if he hadn't shot any!

He was charged a shot fee regardless of how many were taken. He paid an outing fee for a day out with the chance of getting a shot at a deer. He was allowed to shoot 10. A red letter day and way beyond what could have been reasonably expected.

I actually think £100 would have been way over the top whether affordable or not. But I do not believe for one moment, that someone who can afford a paid stalk, a drive several hours north, all their own stalking equipment and no doubt a chippy on the way home, would break the bank by handing over another £15!!!
 
To me it's poor business management- if they ain't charging enuf to the fact they feel offended if some one dosnt tip then it's poor management. I for one working for my self price my jobs accordingly regardless of how well or bad the job goes. I dnt expect my clients to offer more if I do a great job. At the end of the day it's business these guys drive all those miles to give someone there business when the could go else where and then there mocked slated on a public forum!!!
 
jamross65 said:
That part of the would have been free if he hadn't shot any!

He was charged a shot fee regardless of how many were taken. He paid an outing fee for a day out with the chance of getting a shot at a deer. He was allowed to shoot 10. A red letter day and way beyond what could have been reasonably expected.

I actually think £100 would have been way over the top whether affordable or not. But I do not believe for one moment, that someone who can afford a paid stalk, a drive several hours north, all their own stalking equipment and no doubt a chippy on the way home, would break the bank by handing over another £15!!!
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Likewise, perhaps, someone who has earned an honest days' pay doing something he enjoys in the company of a competant paying amateur fellow-enthusiast might be able to prevent himself feeling put-out on the basis of that same £15.

You have no idea, by and large, of your client's financial position. To assume in financially-straightened times that because someone has a rifle and a car and can afford a days' stalking he must have money to throw about make very little sense.

Does this whining, cringing sense of offended entitlement not belong to the long-dead Edwardian era? I think those who complain about inadequate tips would have a better case if they declined them and explained to the donor why they were doing so. If they accept a tip it were better done with good grace in the spirit in which it presumably was offered and then not spoken of again.
 
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davidm said:
To me it's poor business management- if they ain't charging enuf to the fact they feel offended if some one dosnt tip then it's poor management. I for one working for my self price my jobs accordingly regardless of how well or bad the job goes. I dnt expect my clients to offer more if I do a great job. At the end of the day it's business these guys drive all those miles to give someone there business when the could go else where and then there mocked slated on a public forum!!!
Click to expand...

I think you are overlooking what was given. It is not a hard and fast ruling like you pricing for a job allowing for the cost of labour and materials.

A guest came out stalking and expected to shoot a deer for which he would be charged a fee. He shot 10x more than what would have caused him to incur the same basic fee!!!

I am not knocking or slating anyone, in fact I sit totally on the fence when it comes to tipping and think this 'recommended minimum tip' thing in the fishing/shooting world is all wrong.

I used this actual example to highlight there is surely a point when the person providing the service has gone way beyond what was expected of them in the agreement...
 
Dalua said:
Likewise, perhaps, someone who has earned an honest days' pay doing something he enjoys in the company of a competant paying amateur fellow-enthusiast might be able to prevent himself feeling put-out on the basis of that same £15.

You have no idea, by and large, of your client's financial position. To assume in financially-straightened times that because someone has a rifle and a car and can afford a days' stalking he must have money to throw about make very little sense.

Does this whining, cringing sense of offended entitlement not belong to the long-dead Edwardian era? I think those who complain about inadequate tips would have a better case if they either declined them and explained to the donor why they were doing so; or accepted them with good grace in the spirit that they were presumably intended and then shut up about it.
Click to expand...

See the post I have just put up re what I think of tipping...

I'm sorry, but regardless of where I stand on tipping, if the difference in me being able to survive from one day to the next was a tenner, the very last thing I would be doing is spending hundreds of pounds on stalking.

I do not expect a tip from guests. I totally agree that they have paid for something and I will provide them with the best day I possibly can. I have insisted earlier this year that when a guest offered me a tip it was totally unnecessary as we had been unsuccessful. I walked away so he could not force it in my hand and he went over to my landy and stuck it under my sun visor!!!

This point was made to highlight that when something is provided way beyond that expected or offered, it is not inappropriate and not a hark back to Edwardian times...
 
I see your point and I agree. I for one wouldn't have kept shooting till 10 unless encouraged to. This being because it is a buisness way of life for some and like you said 1-3 is still a good day at roe so having got what he payed for I would be more inclined to leave the rest for other clients my own opionin thou. I just dont think people should expect tips think its total wrong.A think there could be many reasons why these amounts are offered right or wrong.
 
Thank goodness thats all over! My dad gave me a good tip many years ago and i've always remembered it. "Never jump off a moving bus".
 
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