FAC Confusion - Advice please.

[ShootingInTheShires]

I have an 'open' certificate with .223 being the largest calibre I am currently allowed to purchase. Yesterday I went to look at a new permission. It's not a huge amount of land (about 55acres) but offers good topography with nice safe back stops. The farmer was unaware what calibre the land had been cleared up to and he has lived there for ten years. He has a few problem foxes during lambing season.

1) Presuming the land hasn't been cleared for centre fire rifles in the past ten years (since the farmer moved in), am I still okay to shoot my .223 on there (i.e. is my open certificate deeming me responsible enough to make the decision that it is safe, or does the land still have to be cleared and registered on a database)?

2) With the good lay of the land I am thinking it might be a good chance to request some larger calibres be added to my ticket I presume the FAO would have to come out and inspect the land to clear the calibres and then have them added to my FAC? Is this how it would all work?

3) Is there a database or phone number I can ring to check when the land was last cleared and what calibre it was cleared up to?

My FAC is due for renewal in May.

 

[mealiejimmy]

If you have an open certificate, permission to shoot over a piece of land is sufficient for you to proceed without informing the police or having the land "inspected"
You are expected to be able to judge whether or not any shots you take on the land are safe

Cheers

Bruce

 

[ShootingInTheShires]

As I thought, thanks Bruce.

In terms of having larger calibres added, would the land then have to be inspected? Or would it be a case of me requesting the calibres and then the FAO coming round and essentially saying 'Where do you plan to shoot them'?

 

[nun_hunter]

2.) You'll still need "good reason" to be granted larger calibres/cartridges. You may be able to get up to a 6mm for fox due to the distances involved but realistically deer or boar would be the main likely reason for upping your calibre/cartridge.

 

[ShootingInTheShires]

2.) You'll still need "good reason" to be granted larger calibres/cartridges. You may be able to get up to a 6mm for fox due to the distances involved but realistically deer or boar would be the main likely reason for upping your calibre/cartridge.

Thanks. I am hoping to get into stalking next year and have booked my DSC1. Is this enough of a 'good reason' or do stalking permissions granted have to be checked etc

 

[Dalua]

You are expected to be able to judge whether or not any shots you take on the land are safe

You are actually only meant to take shots you've competently assessed as safe anyway - whether your FAC is restricted or not.
The responsibility is always with the shooter.

 

[nun_hunter]

Thanks. I am hoping to get into stalking next year and have booked my DSC1. Is this enough of a 'good reason' or do stalking permissions granted have to be checked etc

You would likely require some proof as to booked outings or deer on the permission you have. It's best to download the HO Guidence, have a good read and then you have the information to approach your FEO and answer the likely questions. Also it's useful to read and understand the Guidence so you can (respectfully) challenge any decisions or directions you disagree with.

 

[malmick]

What other land have you permission to shoot on and what species are there? This could help to determining good reason and which calibre.

 

[ShootingInTheShires]

What other land have you permission to shoot on and what species are there? This could help to determining good reason and which calibre.

I have permission to shoot foxes on another farm however that land has only been cleared up to .223 because the land is so flat hence this is the largest calibre on my ticket.

 

[malmick]

I have permission to shoot foxes on another farm however that land has only been cleared up to .223 because the land is so flat hence this is the largest calibre on my ticket.

In that case if you have deer other than Muntjac and CWD passing through the new permission then there would be good reason to apply for a variation for a larger CF calibre. The matter of the land being passed for that calibre can be resolved if there are, as you say, safe backstops. Good luck with applying for your variation, there's nothing wrong with asking the FLO the right questions.

 

[downwind]

Is there any evidence of deer on the land that you've now been granted permission? If the (New)farmer gives written permission for you to shoot deer on his 55acres, that should be sufficient for you to apply for a deer legal calibre.
Edit, malmick was writing his post at the same time as me

 

[Sampo]

1. Yes
2. If you have sufficient reason, you can get other calibers.
3. The FEO is a good start but land doesn't need to be cleared if you have an open certificate.

 

[ShootingInTheShires]

Is there any evidence of deer on the land that you've now been granted permission? If the (New)farmer gives written permission for you to shoot deer on his 55acres, that should be sufficient for you to apply for a deer legal calibre.
Edit, malmick was writing his post at the same time as me

Thanks both. As far as I know there are only muntjac present on the new farm, but shooting these wasn't discussed. I was mainly thinking that because of the lay of the land I maybe able to justify a larger calibre just to target the foxes from a longer distance, or would this not be a suitable reason?

Could potentially tie the longer distance reason with me starting stalking and sitting my DSC1 next year to add weight to my request??

 

[VSS]

Thanks both. As far as I know there are only muntjac present on the new farm, but shooting these wasn't discussed. I was mainly thinking that because of the lay of the land I maybe able to justify a larger calibre just to target the foxes from a longer distance, or would this not be a suitable reason?

Could potentially tie the longer distance reason with me starting stalking and sitting my DSC1 next year to add weight to my request??

With all due respect, it strikes me that at this stage you don't really have any justification for applying for a larger calibre. Given that you have open conditions for your 223, which means that land clearance is not required for any permissions that you obtain, my advice would be get out there, get shooting, build up your experience with what you've got. The 223 will do you fine for foxes and muntjac.
The more experience you've got the more chance there is that, when the time comes, you'll be granted a larger calibre with open conditions.

 

[ShootingInTheShires]

With all due respect, it strikes me that at this stage you don't really have any justification for applying for a larger calibre. Given that you have open conditions for your 223, which means that land clearance is not required for any permissions that you obtain, my advice would be get out there, get shooting, build up your experience with what you've got. The 223 will do you fine for foxes and muntjac.

Noted, thanks for the advice.

 

[Will the chippy]

A 243 or larger is no magic wand in accuracy or range over your 223. It will comfortably take fox and muntjac further than most are capable. Just use the right bullets. No need to feel undergunned with what you have.

 

[malmick]

@VSS and @Will the chippy are on the money

 

[MAH]

Thanks. I am hoping to get into stalking next year and have booked my DSC1. Is this enough of a 'good reason' or do stalking permissions granted have to be checked etc

My experience, is that, be it 1st application or renewal, I've had to demonstrate evidence of two future stalking bookings to demonstrate good reason.

Your DSC1 is a good competency indicator primarily for landowners letting you shoot.
The police will also take note, but on it's own it is not evidence of good reason.

M