BASC response to HSE lead ammunition consultation

[Conor O'Gorman]

BASC’s consultation response considered every shooting discipline, both live quarry and target, and the documents we submitted can be downloaded here:

BASC response to HSE lead ammunition consultation

Read BASC's response to the Health and Safety Executive's socio-economic consultation on proposals to restrict the use of lead ammunition.

basc.org.uk

In our response we made our position clear to the HSE that BASC was opposed to any further regulation on the use of lead ammunition in the UK for the following reasons:

• Regulations are already in place to mitigate risks to wildfowl from the use of lead shot in wetlands.
• There is clear evidence that lead shot poses a risk to a wide range of bird species in terrestrial habitats and a voluntary move away from lead shot for live quarry shooting with shotguns is reducing these risks.
• The shooting sector must be allowed time to develop non-lead shotgun ammunition due to a world shortage of components and the need for manufacturers and assemblers to source new machinery to produce lead shot alternatives and biodegradable wads for all shotgun calibers.
• Lead in game meat is potentially a risk to human health via secondary exposure and government guidance and market forces are managing risks via best practice.
• Lead exposure pathways are not conclusive for livestock, soil, soil organisms, plants, and surface waters; and current legal and regulatory frameworks are in place to manage risks.

BASC remains committed to the voluntary transition away from lead shot and single-use plastics for live quarry shooting, which commenced in February 2020. The industry has made enormous strides forward in the development of lead-free shotgun ammunition and biodegradable wads to date, and BASC will continue to drive this process forward.

 

[stubear]

I responded along similar lines - it will be interesting to see what they come back with.

 

[timbrayford]

Actually I thought that the HSE had only superficially enquired into the matter, there were significant errors and omissions with a lot of conjecture based stuff on their part, coupled with near ignorance on the negative issues associated with steel shot.
Overall I thought that they were dictating an agenda based on a pre-determined conclusion rather than conducting a genuine consultation exercise.

 

[Mick Miller]

Actually I thought that the HSE had only superficially enquired into the matter, there were significant errors and omissions with a lot of conjecture based stuff on their part, coupled with near ignorance on the negative issues associated with steel shot.
Overall I thought that they were dictating an agenda based on a pre-determined conclusion rather than conducting a genuine consultation exercise.

Astute, as always.

 

[Curried Venison]

Thanks for posting the link, Conor.

 

[25 Sharps]

Actually I thought that the HSE had only superficially enquired into the matter, there were significant errors and omissions with a lot of conjecture based stuff on their part, coupled with near ignorance on the negative issues associated with steel shot.
Overall I thought that they were dictating an agenda based on a pre-determined conclusion rather than conducting a genuine consultation exercise.

agreed

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Actually I thought that the HSE had only superficially enquired into the matter, there were significant errors and omissions with a lot of conjecture based stuff on their part, coupled with near ignorance on the negative issues associated with steel shot.
Overall I thought that they were dictating an agenda based on a pre-determined conclusion rather than conducting a genuine consultation exercise.

BASC critiqued every assertion presented by the HSE on the exposure risks from lead ammunition in its consultation documents and in most cases found the evidence to be either inconclusive or theoretical in nature. As a result, BASC found many of the restriction proposals to be over-precautionary.

If you have not already done so, do have a read of the following document submitted by BASC to the HSE.

https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/BASC-review-of-HSE-Annex-15-opinion.pdf

 

[User00039]

No one mentions what happens when an MRI, with steel shot. If going to have theoretical situations. That could become an issue .

 

[cjm1066]

Thanks for posting.

Has anyone seen the responses of other shooting organisations?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

No one mentions what happens when an MRI, with steel shot. If going to have theoretical situations. That could become an issue .

The Society and College of Radiographers informed BASC that to their knowledge there have been no reported incidents of harm caused by ingested steel shot during an MRI scan in the UK. However, the steel shot could cause image distortion during the MRI scan and for that reason if you think you have ingested steel shot before your scan you should let the staff in the MRI department know before your appointment.

Also, no issues reported by UK wildfowlers, or game shooters in USA and Denmark and many other places using steel shot for game shooting for many years as regards broken teeth, so let's put that urban myth to bed also

 

[User00039]

The Society and College of Radiographers informed BASC that to their knowledge there have been no reported incidents of harm caused by ingested steel shot during an MRI scan in the UK. However, the steel shot could cause image distortion during the MRI scan and for that reason if you think you have ingested steel shot before your scan you should let the staff in the MRI department know before your appointment.

Also, no issues reported by UK wildfowlers, or game shooters in USA and Denmark and many other places using steel shot for game shooting for many years as regards broken teeth, so let's put that urban myth to bed also

"Theoretical".
By harm, no the scan all right by radiographers. But the cancer that kills you afterwards because the MRI was ****. .
Going with theoretical possibilities include them all or not at all, is all I'm saying.
Personally I don't have an issue with steel shot. Just wish there were cheap cartridges for young folk coming into the sport.
Steel or lead shot has been known to chip / break teeth. But obviously depends on conditions.

 

[Apthorpe]

The Society and College of Radiographers informed BASC that to their knowledge there have been no reported incidents of harm caused by ingested steel shot during an MRI scan in the UK. However, the steel shot could cause image distortion during the MRI scan and for that reason if you think you have ingested steel shot before your scan you should let the staff in the MRI department know before your appointment.

Also, no issues reported by UK wildfowlers, or game shooters in USA and Denmark and many other places using steel shot for game shooting for many years as regards broken teeth, so let's put that urban myth to bed also

How do you collect dental data from Danish and US wildfowlers? A lot of US game is shot with lead cartridges. Urban myth? Or dismissed by uninformed opinion with no evidence?
I've cracked a chunk off a premolar with shot from a duck. Couldn't say definitively if it was steel or bismuth though.

 

[User00039]

How do you collect dental data from Danish and US wildfowlers? A lot of US game is shot with lead cartridges. Urban myth? Or dismissed by uninformed opinion with no evidence?
I've cracked a chunk off a premolar with shot from a duck. Couldn't say definitively if it was steel or bismuth though.

He is head of policy and campaigns. Waves a magic wand. I'm guessing and all the information appears on an email.
From my limited experience, most of USA have little interest or respect for basc or UK for that matter.
Also to say the industry have made enormous strides .
Lead game meat potentially harmful, so is putting a sock on at top of staircase. It's all relative.
UK going to the dogs and shooting society industry following along with everything else.

 

[LuckyEddie]

The Society and College of Radiographers informed BASC that to their knowledge there have been no reported incidents of harm caused by ingested steel shot during an MRI scan in the UK. However, the steel shot could cause image distortion during the MRI scan and for that reason if you think you have ingested steel shot before your scan you should let the staff in the MRI department know before your appointment.

Also, no issues reported by UK wildfowlers, or game shooters in USA and Denmark and many other places using steel shot for game shooting for many years as regards broken teeth, so let's put that urban myth to bed also

Is steel shot magnetic?
Just because it hasn’t been reported does not mean it cannot happen!

I should add that I have had fairly significant surgery where staples were used to stitch my stomach. I now need to declare this prior to any MRI scan in the future.
Is there any difference in a stomach between steel shot and a staple?

 

[Apthorpe]

It seems that if one has not personally been aware of a downside of steel shot, it does not exist or is an urban myth. Yet, an unobserved alleged downside of lead shot is uncritically accepted by the same person as fact.

I feel like the next edition of BASC safe gun handling advice will be to carefully check your gun, avoid dangers to others then shoot yourself in the foot.

 

[RF76]

The Society and College of Radiographers informed BASC that to their knowledge there have been no reported incidents of harm caused by ingested steel shot during an MRI scan in the UK. However, the steel shot could cause image distortion during the MRI scan and for that reason if you think you have ingested steel shot before your scan you should let the staff in the MRI department know before your appointment.

Also, no issues reported by UK wildfowlers, or game shooters in USA and Denmark and many other places using steel shot for game shooting for many years as regards broken teeth, so let's put that urban myth to bed also

Conor

As you have repeatedly asked others to do on other posts, please provide the evidence, research and conclusions to support your claims.

 

[LuckyEddie]

Conor

As you have repeatedly asked others to do on other posts, please provide the evidence, research and conclusions to support your claims.

It would be good to see verbatim the question(s) asked and likewise response.

 

[Terry2016]

No one mentions what happens when an MRI, with steel shot. If going to have theoretical situations. That could become an issue .

Thats because nothing happens. many people have metal in their body and live with it. scans happen the only time a MRI scan would not happen is if the metal was near a vital organ. its been covered a thousand times.

 

[Apthorpe]

Thats because nothing happens. many people have metal in their body and live with it. scans happen the only time a MRI scan would not happen is if the metal was near a vital organ. its been covered a thousand times.

Is the gut lining a vital organ? If perforated, could cause very serious consequences.

This seems a family tangential risk, but then so are the risks of lead shot.

 

[Terry2016]

Is the gut lining a vital organ? If perforated, could cause very serious consequences.

This seems a family tangential risk, but then so are the risks of lead shot.

The gut is not a problem hence my response.

Denmark have been using steel shot exclusively for 20 years.... maybe they don't have MRI scans.........