BASC response to HSE lead ammunition consultation

[Conor O'Gorman]

@Conor O'Gorman here’s an idea for BASC to prove how confident they are.

As part of membership you get free private medical treatment should you injest steel shot which then causes medical issues.

If you are that confident about this then it should be at no extra cost as you should never have to pay out.
What do you say?

The Society and College of Radiographers informed BASC that to their knowledge there have been no reported incidents of harm caused by ingested steel shot during an MRI scan in the UK. However, the steel shot could cause image distortion during the MRI scan and for that reason if you think you have ingested steel shot before your scan you should let the staff in the MRI department know before your appointment.

 

[User00039]

Let's be clear, your comments are personal attacks and attributable to you and you alone, published in the public domain by you. Please stop gaslighting. As regards PMs, you are right, not one PM, two PMs sent by me to you and not replied to. As for .22LR please read BASC's consultation response - summary or in full. If you have genuine questions and are a BASC member please email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk and I would be happy to help. Moving forwards I am not going to entertain your need to grandstand on SD. I wish you well for whatever you are going through.

Same to you to. I take your messages as personal attack. Especially as I am random member of the public. And you are a senior member of the basc. I only have two conversations under message's, from July neither are from you. Not sure where your messages went but not received.
Please don't bother responding.

 

[User00039]

Steel can be an issue. As stated. The end of conversation.

 

[User00039]

I am leaving this pointless discussion.

 

[User00039]

He is head of policy and campaigns. Waves a magic wand. I'm guessing and all the information appears on an email.
From my limited experience, most of USA have little interest or respect for basc or UK for that matter.
Also to say the industry have made enormous strides .
Lead game meat potentially harmful, so is putting a sock on at top of staircase. It's all relative.
UK going to the dogs and shooting society industry following along with everything else.

Sorry, but I have personally damaged teeth from lead and steel shot.

 

[LuckyEddie]

The Society and College of Radiographers informed BASC that to their knowledge there have been no reported incidents of harm caused by ingested steel shot during an MRI scan in the UK. However, the steel shot could cause image distortion during the MRI scan and for that reason if you think you have ingested steel shot before your scan you should let the staff in the MRI department know before your appointment.

That response is not worth the time you took to write it (or copy it).

I am not about image distortion that is a side issue.
My issue is the pellet being attracted to the magnet (last time I heard steel was magnetic) and rapidly evacuate from the body in an uncontrolled manner, as Elon Musk would say.

So will BASC pay for any private medical treatment due to this rapid evacuation since they seem so certain that it will not happen?

Put your money on the table if you dare!

 

[palmer_mike]

As an anecdote, i had an MRI scan on my liver a few years ago. I had come from work and was wearing steel toe cap shoes.

I mentioned this to the MRI person and she told me not to worry and I could leave them on. Nothing untoward happened as a result.

Maybe there’s different strength MRIs or maybe as my feet were poking out the end of the tube it wasn’t an issue?

 

[palmer_mike]

On the other hand

Gastric Perforation During MRI After Ingestion of Ferromagnetic Foreign Bodies

A 65-year-old male with schizophrenia and intellectual disability ingested what was reported to be two AA batteries, prior to a scheduled magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) study. He developed severe abdominal pain and presented to the emergency department ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[User00039]

Let's be clear, your comments are personal attacks and attributable to you and you alone, published in the public domain by you. Please stop gaslighting. As regards PMs, you are right, not one PM, two PMs sent by me to you and not replied to. As for .22LR please read BASC's consultation response - summary or in full. If you have genuine questions and are a BASC member please email me at conor.ogorman@basc.org.uk and I would be happy to help. Moving forwards I am not going to entertain your need to grandstand on SD. I wish you well for whatever you are going through.

Thank you for your offer of help regarding the .22 lr. I have read the previous basc information. I was wondering if there was an update. I will await for further publishing by the basc.

 

[User00039]

The Society and College of Radiographers informed BASC that to their knowledge there have been no reported incidents of harm caused by ingested steel shot during an MRI scan in the UK. However, the steel shot could cause image distortion during the MRI scan and for that reason if you think you have ingested steel shot before your scan you should let the staff in the MRI department know before your appointment.

I apologise if I upset you, it was never my intention to upset you or anyone else on this forum. I like the basc for some things but I do find it very corporate in recent years. The folk have always been very helpful that I she spoken to in-person.
I am not very well at the moment.
As you have stated and I was trying to state at the start. Steel can cause issues with imaging. I had an relative that had a steel plate and sadly died of cancer as MRI was unable to be performed or properly and some of the cancer was missed. So I feel strongly about MRI and steel. Not always but on occasion even small pieces of steel can cause difficulty in viewing. But research is already underway to improve this.
I am not very well at the moment.
I am leaving the forum as I find there are lots emotions from everyone, in my current state of poor health this forum is not for me.
I wish you and everyone on here the best. but unfortunately its not for me, I will be leaving this time.
I will contact you directly regarding my query on target ammunition and 22lr, thank you for the offer of assistance, regarding my query as I am concerned about subsonic 22lr ammunition.

 

[Smellydog]

The whole thing is a crock of sh..e regarding lead poisoning from shot. As pointed out the dangers with which we pollute our atmosphere are millions of times worse.
It's well known that smoking is bad for you but you would not believe what it's responsible for according to medics. Just one or two where I've been asked the question 'Do you smoke"other than the known heart and lung problems.
Sinus problems
Mouth ulcers and toothache
Failure of bone to grow after operation
Arthritis
Cartlidge problems
Skin irritation
Spinal nerve problems
Stomach and bowel problems
Earache and rotate cuff problems.
Recovery from a vast amount of injuries.
It's the get out clause, for so many ills.
It would appear that we seem to need something new to blame for ills that beset us continuously.
It's just like the COVID jabs, " It's a new strain".Yes well when did it occur because it takes a while to develop the vaccine. So by the time you have been jabbed for the new one it's an old one because another has arrived.
What a crazy woke world we live in, I shall continue to drink, smoke and shoot lead until I fall off my perch.

Me too, right by you brother.
Controlling bastards.
Go sort out the drug dealers, the kiddie fiddler's. Go stop wasting billions on mega tons of concrete for a railway no one wanted and spend it on hospitals.
Like not using lead is going to change the world....get real.
Do they, whoever they are really think they, the anti, will stop there? Wake up!

We need " I shoot lead" stickers for our cars. Not " I'm a chicken" stickers!

 

[timbrayford]

So why is lead shotgun shot considered to be so toxic that it's a threat to civilisation as we know it but the lead in airgun and rimfire ammunition not so? It just doesn't make sense!

 

[RF76]

So why is lead shotgun shot considered to be so toxic that it's a threat to civilisation as we know it but the lead in airgun and rimfire ammunition not so? It just doesn't make sense!

BAE systems produces 1Million rounds a day, of Lead ammunition.

 

[timbrayford]

BAE systems produces 1Million rounds a day, of Lead ammunition.

With all due respect to both Conor and BASC they need to learn the expression of when you dig yourselves into a deep hole stop digging!

 

[Smellydog]

So why is lead shotgun shot considered to be so toxic that it's a threat to civilisation as we know it but the lead in airgun and rimfire ammunition not so? It just doesn't make sense!

And why is lead on a roof ok but shooting it is bad ?

 

[Terry2016]

who BASC are partners with - this is incorrect.

They are partners in the sense that BASC shooting programme teams up with Eley at the likes of the Game Fair etc and BASC refer to them as their official sponsors, see bottom of their web page listing all partners & sponsors, so they work closely with each other to mutual benefit one assumes.

Official partners and sponsors

BASC is supported by a range of brands, who also offer excellent deals to our members.

basc.org.uk

sponsorship is not a partnership - its about branding. they are not partners.

 

[Terry2016]

Unfortunately that is not necessarily true, google steel shot damage and barrel wear.

Damage to the forcing cone and bulging at the chokes can occur and their is suggestions by the trade that like you need new tyres for your car you may need new barrels for your gun depending on how much you shoot it.
Steel shot does not yield like lead going through the choke constriction giving rise to significantly more pressure than that of lead. The larger the diameter of the steel shot and the higher the velocity being used the big the risk of damage.

Yes wildfowler have been using steel shot for years but they typically shoot relatively few cartridges and in magnum chambers, not your typical clay or game guns. Some are now moving away from heavy steel shot loads to light loads of tungsten based shot in .410s with 2.0mm diameter tungsten shot, given it is so much more dense than lead.

Will just be part of the shooting experience going forward like any sport where equipment used gets damaged and replaced.

It is true. if your chokes are correct and the wad performs as it should, there is no issue, yes there ei more pressure in a steel shot cartridge for HP steel, however standard performance remains within teh tolerances of lead shot. for clarity they do not do anything to a gun to hP steel proof it just put more pressure and put a proof mark.

again not true, some wildfowl's shoots hundreds if not thousands of rounds of HP steel, tungsten can only be shot through a plastic wad and increases the risk to a gun due to the density and there is a higher risk of damage,

all mechanics ware... thats life, steel shot with the right wad at "standard performance" the ware will be negligible.

 

[Liveonce]

sponsorship is not a partnership - its about branding. they are not partners.

Not Financial partners but work very close with each other for mutual benefit, simple as that.

 

[Terry2016]

No there isn't if there was folk would not use MRI. Please do not continue to respond about things you obviously know nothing about.

If steel didn't come in contact with barrel then there would not be an issue with those not manufactured for steel .

A lot bullets are copper coated, yes there is additional wear compared to soft point lead. But it is quite low.
Copper alloys seem to be wat forward, but wait for the cost to increase.

And why is lead on a roof ok but shooting it is bad ?

birds eat lead shot laying on the ground

 

[Terry2016]

Not Financial partners but work very close with each other for mutual benefit, simple as that.

not very true is it ?

its called sponsorship... simple. nothing more nothing less