Legal Advice- is there a 3000 ft lbs limit for UK deer use ? Some police forces believe there is.

[doric_prince]

it gives guidance on what quarry constitutes ‘good reason’ for various calibres.

This.

 

[25 Sharps]

duplicate

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

I’d love to know how they came by these “categories”

I actually think the categories are a fairly sensible place to start. One has to draw lines somewhere. It must save a lot of time for 9/10 applications.

 

[webley701]

Agreed. But from what I have gathered - some forces are using it as a firm guideline- and the bar of requirement to show "good reason" is higher as a result :s

I agree with you - unfortunately in reality the ‘guide‘ is being taken too seriously by some forces. The point that can be made to such forces is that the table is only a guide & the supporting text in the document it comes from states just that.

 

[stubear]

I have a couple of mates granted .375 for deer in the U.K., and they hold it with an open condition.

I got .300wm granted for deer in the U.K., also on a full open ticket.

The guidance is just that - guidance. There is no maximum specified in the Deer Act or Firearms Act, and if you have good reason for it then you will get it granted.

 

[User00047]

I actually think the categories are a fairly sensible place to start. One has to draw lines somewhere. It must save a lot of time for 9/10 applications.

I think that police forces should have firearms experts who actually talk to firearms owners about their individual requirements and take it from there.
They police issuing certificates should be capable of speaking our language and understanding the many practical reasons for wanting to use different calibres/chamberings for different situations.
If you start making these little boxes of numbers on a computer screen and letting that tell you what to do, then you lose a lot of options.

 

[NoIDeer]

I asked for a slot for a 300wm, gave PG in Africa as good reason and asked for aolq. FLO said I can give you the 300 no problem but can't give you an open slot in UK without something a bit bigger than fallow. I had some red stalking as well which satisfied his good reason and I got the ticket. Never did fill it.

My guess is you do need a good reason for the higher ME rifles and you will get use in the UK if you have the larger deer or possibly boar to shoot.

 

[Bowland blades]

You need good reason for every firearm in your cabinet , make your case . The fact is .243 up will do the job on any UK deer so we are dealing with why you need something more than the Normal .
It helps a lot if you have lots of verifiable experience and your not starting to look like a gun collector. The fact is in the UK keeping firearms is ultimately a privilege in law and there is no get around to that so tread carefully and get your evidence and reason for more sound

 

[25 Sharps]

You need good reason for every firearm in your cabinet , make your case . The fact is .243 up will do the job on any UK deer so we are dealing with why you need something more than the Normal .
It helps a lot if you have lots of verifiable experience and your not starting to look like a gun collector. The fact is in the UK keeping firearms is ultimately a privilege in law and there is no get around to that so tread carefully and get your evidence and reason for more sound

It is absolutely not a privilege - if you have good reason and nothing in your past or present that precludes you from possessing firearms, you should be granted a certificate!

 

[John Gryphon]

and the rem mag is on the limit.

if the limit is 3000fp`s then most 7mm RM rounds are over that, with some reaching 3400 plus. (Rem TTX)

 

[Heym SR20]

Read the Home Office guidelines and the Firearms Acts and deer acts.

There are no maximums, only minimums.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Read the Home Office guidelines and the Firearms Acts and deer acts.

There are no maximums, only minimums.

That's certainly an interesting interpretation of the table. But for them to be a "big game" category- with that specifically stated as unsuitable for UK deer- would that not be considered a maximum?

 

[Heym SR20]

That's certainly an interesting interpretation of the table. But for them to be a "big game" category- with that specifically stated as unsuitable for UK deer- would that not be considered a maximum?

You need to demonstrate good reason. A good reason is big bodied red deer being shot in open country. Together with use overseas.

300 mag, 375 and 416 all good double duty and have sufficient velocity to be flat enough for open ground.

Traditionally bigger bores were too slow to meet min velocity requirements for UK deer,

But then you can get could enough velocities in a 458 win mag to make them a 250 yard point blank deer and antelope cartridge.

 

[Dickie]

This has been done on here many times before and it’s a post code lottery or police force lottery whatever way you put it.

 

[Smellydog]

You don't want one, you need one because the deer are far away and do not want to wound them. You need something with a level of energy at the distance you will be shooting to be humane. You humbly request your licensing department aid you in doing this necessary work as humanely as possible.

 

[Stalker62]

I have a couple of mates granted .375 for deer in the U.K., and they hold it with an open condition.

I hold a .375 for deer - it was not a 'tick box' exercise. I had to (no surprise) show 'good reason' - I then had to have a telephone conversation with the FLM (retired Police Inspector), who through gritted teeth, eventually authorised the variation.

Incidentally he also authorised twenty (20) rounds of ammunition. Twenty rounds! I phoned him back.

"It's not enough blah, blah, blah".

"OK. I will increase it to thirty (30) rounds".

"You do know them sell them in boxes of twenty?"

"OK. I will increase it to forty (40) rounds"


I have had less painful extractions at the dentist.




When he retired, the new chap increased it to 120 rounds without my even asking.

It is quite right, that in law there is no maximum ME for deer - but as we all know, we are at the mercy of the whims, interpretations and bias of individuals.

Good reason (a real 'good reason') is always worth a run. A pal got a .300WM for deer on Islay - which can be fairly long distance shooting (he is domiciled South of the Wall).

Apropos Islay, I am off there next (2025) January, but will be taking the .308 - or should I take the .375?

 

[roberts1066]

There does not seem to be any common approach between the 52 police areas. It seems that there it can be a large dose of local interpretation on these guidelines and that is exactly what they are. You can make a case but I think out come will be very much down to where you live. That's my take on it.

 

[gixer1]

I find myself writing much longer justifications, in my case it was for two rifles or one chambering and 3 rifles of another - however, I will say after writing it there seemed to be no issues - as has been said you just need to be able to articulate why you have the need - just saying “I want one” will not cut it and in the defence of the FLA, many people do try to use that justification for some big boomers.

Regards,
Gixer

 

[25 Sharps]

That's certainly an interesting interpretation of the table. But for them to be a "big game" category- with that specifically stated as unsuitable for UK deer- would that not be considered a maximum?

It doesn’t state it’s unsuitable for UK deer!!

It suggests UK deer does not constitute good reason for what in the view of the home office is a dangerous game calibre.

 

[25 Sharps]

You need to demonstrate good reason. A good reason is big bodied red deer being shot in open country. Together with use overseas.

300 mag, 375 and 416 all good double duty and have sufficient velocity to be flat enough for open ground.

Traditionally bigger bores were too slow to meet min velocity requirements for UK deer,

But then you can get could enough velocities in a 458 win mag to make them a 250 yard point blank deer and antelope cartridge.

So by your argument a solely domestic stalker doesn’t constitute good reason.

Also, the UK doesn’t have velocity limits, only Scotland