Thanks Lloyd. Watched this this morning and while I “get” him there were parts where he came across quite poorly by modern day standards
Sir Guy Wallace - The End of the Game
- Thread starter kimh
- Start date
Thanks Lloyd. Watched this this morning and while I “get” him there were parts where he came across quite poorly by modern day standards
I believe the estate is Thrumster House - just south of Wick. It is a l-o-n-g way up the A9 north of Inverness. It is on the edge of the flatlands which further west form the flow country.
Nope and thats one of the many things I get
. Imo
I found that bit in the film utterly toe curling
I’m with the PH and the staff
Professionalism in the face of insult
I liked him until that point
Not acceptable
J
… and I’m from that world that he supposedly was a part of …
I’m with the PH and the staff
Professionalism in the face of insult
I liked him until that point
Not acceptable
J
… and I’m from that world that he supposedly was a part of …
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
A nice wee film, that I sat through in three 'sittings'.
First off the bat.
He was a product of his time. He was a 'character'. It would be nice to think that some of his racist 'language' would die out with him. It won't and that is a shame.
Some of his other 'colourful' language is (to me anyway) much more acceptable.
Stick it out until the end of the film - or if you can't be arsed, go to 1:08:40 - I actually laughed out loud.
A rare thing.
First off the bat.
He was a product of his time. He was a 'character'. It would be nice to think that some of his racist 'language' would die out with him. It won't and that is a shame.
Some of his other 'colourful' language is (to me anyway) much more acceptable.
Stick it out until the end of the film - or if you can't be arsed, go to 1:08:40 - I actually laughed out loud.
A rare thing.
His supposed "racist" views should not be excused as being "of their time". If they are wrong they are wrong. Elsewise by extension we accept what? Witch burning? Living human sacrifice so that the sun will rise again come the morning?
I have known enough people alive in that period to realise that being "of their time" is not an excuse.
My late friend Clifford Owen a Captain in the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry who fought in North Africa, then Monte Cassino and finally in France after D-Day at Hill 112 didn't hold those views. My late mother's friend, a Major in the Staffordshire Regiment who fought in Burma in 1944 also didn't have those views. The difference? Clifford fought alongside Indian Army soldiers and my mother's friend, the Major, officered soldiers of the Nigeria Regiment and one recollection he told was of swimming with his Sergeant (white officers and black NCOs and other ranks) across a river to find sleeping Japanese on the other side. So what did he do? He swam back, collected his soldiers and swam back and, to a man, cut the throats of the Japanese as they slept.
So too often "of their time" is an "excuse me" for in fact a lack of being better educated and not having the moral courage or intelligence to question those then prevalent attitudes.
So in fact the man Wallace is very unremarkable in that despite his supposed "adventures" he lacked the intelligence to think for himself beyond the prejudices of his peers and merely collaborated with the then common narrative.
I have known enough people alive in that period to realise that being "of their time" is not an excuse.
My late friend Clifford Owen a Captain in the Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry who fought in North Africa, then Monte Cassino and finally in France after D-Day at Hill 112 didn't hold those views. My late mother's friend, a Major in the Staffordshire Regiment who fought in Burma in 1944 also didn't have those views. The difference? Clifford fought alongside Indian Army soldiers and my mother's friend, the Major, officered soldiers of the Nigeria Regiment and one recollection he told was of swimming with his Sergeant (white officers and black NCOs and other ranks) across a river to find sleeping Japanese on the other side. So what did he do? He swam back, collected his soldiers and swam back and, to a man, cut the throats of the Japanese as they slept.
So too often "of their time" is an "excuse me" for in fact a lack of being better educated and not having the moral courage or intelligence to question those then prevalent attitudes.
So in fact the man Wallace is very unremarkable in that despite his supposed "adventures" he lacked the intelligence to think for himself beyond the prejudices of his peers and merely collaborated with the then common narrative.
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Sadly we are all products of our time
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Stalker62
Well-Known Member
@enfieldspares
That "common narrative" is exactly what I was referring to when I used the phrase "of his time".
For the avoidance of any doubt - I did not (would not) condone his appalling (and seemingly) ingrained racist language.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Isn’t it sad that viewers of this fascinating video cannot just accept that in many ways that was precisely how it was for many people at that time. One only has to look back at much of the then very popular tv programmes such as Love Thy Neighbour or Til Death Us Do Part to realise that it was indeed a different world, so very different to how it is today.
IMHO taking the moral highground on a previous generation which cannot explain or defend itself gains us nothing - where do you stop - England apologising for the Scottish clearances; Cromwell in Ireland; all the colonies; bombing Berlin?
Or maybe the future will indeed consist of a long line of such easy sitting-duck judgements and no doubt subsequent utterly meaningless apologies on behalf of, and to, a generation long since gone…
IMHO taking the moral highground on a previous generation which cannot explain or defend itself gains us nothing - where do you stop - England apologising for the Scottish clearances; Cromwell in Ireland; all the colonies; bombing Berlin?
Or maybe the future will indeed consist of a long line of such easy sitting-duck judgements and no doubt subsequent utterly meaningless apologies on behalf of, and to, a generation long since gone…
Lloyd90
Well-Known Member
It was telling that Wallace was a bit embarrassed when he found out the man was by him, it seemed he was more playing up to the African whites trying to be a ‘bit of a lad’ or build some camaraderie.
I know lads who go out there hunting still and the treatment of some of the black workers is a lot worse than Wallace making some unacceptable comments.
Interesting comments about the fall of apartheid also. The genocides and chaos that followed being awful.
Currently there’s a lot of movement in Africa from both the Russian’s and Chinese, it’s going to be the next war front, forget Ukraine.
Interesting times ahead.
As far as Wallace goes, he serves this country in the forces as an officer, did lots of work for shooting and dog training and left behind a legacy of a time gone by.
As with anyone in that position, he had good and bad sides no doubt.
May he rest in peace
I doubt we will see many people like him ever again, some on this thread will say that is a good thing, some will see it as a sad thing no doubt!
I know lads who go out there hunting still and the treatment of some of the black workers is a lot worse than Wallace making some unacceptable comments.
Interesting comments about the fall of apartheid also. The genocides and chaos that followed being awful.
Currently there’s a lot of movement in Africa from both the Russian’s and Chinese, it’s going to be the next war front, forget Ukraine.
Interesting times ahead.
As far as Wallace goes, he serves this country in the forces as an officer, did lots of work for shooting and dog training and left behind a legacy of a time gone by.
As with anyone in that position, he had good and bad sides no doubt.
May he rest in peace
I doubt we will see many people like him ever again, some on this thread will say that is a good thing, some will see it as a sad thing no doubt!
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
or old habits die hard
Correct, Guy had a regular kind of assignation there N.
Are you watching the same video as the rest of us?
The film is from 2017.
Just because he dressed up like a goon with his big sideburns and smoked a pipe, doesn’t actually make him a time travelling Victorian for real FFS ..he was wearing a costume.
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