driven scopes

[Heym SR20]

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Here’s another wid boar I was fortunate enough to have from yesterdays driven hunt I was on here in DE. I took the Schultz and larsen.30-06 with the driven game scope again, as i realised id run out of ammo for the .308 win. a good job too as I was in a stand which provided me with several great shooting options but all quite tight affording me with little target acquisition and reaction time. I took this At 40 m it was the last beast in a sounder of 8 or so that were going like the wind and not stopping, one of the faster boar I’ve ever shot. I didn’t give this one quite enough lead though as the shot landed further back than I’d have liked, still, the 150 gr nosler bt knocked it straight over, it was a high liver shot that clipped the base of its spine. It just needed a knife to draw things to a close. All good though as this one, bar a few Christmas roasting joints, is going to be cured fermented sausages for Christmas. Tarragon, hazelnut garlic and red wine cured sausages to be precise!
Kindest regards, Olaf

WMH

 

[Olaf]

Waidmannsdank

I’m off in a minute to skin and joint up the Überläufer Bache from last Fridays hunt in a minute. the ASP , aujeszky virus and Trichinella tests should have come back clear from the local vetinary surgery now hopefully.
Kindest regards, Olaf

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Happy hunting! An expensive scope but a massive field of view with 50 m at 100m, impressive. Mine has only got about 28m at 100 m at it’s lowest magnification setting.
Here’s a picture from my driven hunt here in Germany yesterday. I took the Sau at 50 m and it was running pretty fast, about 60% of its potential full speed. It came through from behind me so I swung right through to left, I put 2 shots into it in a short 3 second or so space of time , just enough time to pick it up in the scope, shoot, reload and shoot again. I hit it twice and the second shot was not necessary with hindsight, still, better safe than sorry.
.30-06 schultz and larsen with my Swarovski driven game scope set to 4x magnification.
I’m on another driven hunt next weekend, I will probably take the RPA with the Schmidt and bender polar on it for a change.
Ooh, I nearly forgot to add, I was taking a pee out of my stand when I heard it running through the dry leaves behind the hill I was sat on. After shooting it I realised I was stood there with my pants and trousers hanging around my ankles with my bare bottom for all the trees to see !
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Kindest regards, Olaf

Been there done that, but where is the picture?

 

[WildBoarHunter]

Totally agree, Im working in Germany at the moment and I hunt regularly here, i will be out on driven game next week, ive got two suitable rifles that I use, one is my .30-06 Schultz and larsen with a Swarovski 1.25-4 x 24 Habicht illuminated ret scope on apel swing off mounts with a Zeiss Diavari 2.5-10 x52 non illuminated ret. The other is my RPA woodland stalker rifle in .308 with a 2.5-10x50 Schmidt and bender polar T96 on it that illuminated.
Both very different setups, but I can shoot both of them on driven game equally as well and so I normally just take which ever one I feel like on the day . Benefits of the schultz with the 1.25-4 x24 is that it’s got a larger field of view and I shoot it without the sound moderator and it isn’t a thumb hole stock so it’s very nice for fast close range woodland shots.
Benefits of the RPA with the 2.5-10 is that it’s got loads more magnification, it’s so short at 400mm barrel length , that it’s actually a nice rifle to handle and shoot freehand with a mod on it.
Where the schultz and larsen comes into its own wearing the 1.25-4x24 is when I’m doing days where I’m walking through as opposed to standing or sitting somewhere. It’s a lighter and more compact rifle and any shots I take are at under 30 m.
If I’m a guest on a driven shoot where I don’t know the ground, I’d always take the RPA with its 25-10 polar or the Schultz and larsen wearing it’s Zeiss Diavari 2.5-10 x52 as, chances are , it will be more likely that I need more magnification than 4 power. Sometimes I Stick the 125-4x24 in my pocket but I rarely bother putting it on.
Don’t be fooled by the scene’s in wild boar fever / Aimpoint advert. etc, most of the shots that I’ve had presented and taken are not high speed swing through jobs, they are far more comfortable momentarily static game animals or moving at a slow trot where a wide field of view in your scope is not anywhere as helpful as an opportunity for a decent bit of magnification. Remember, you need to be certain of the age sex and condition of your animals before taking a shot, you won’t have time to be using bins most likely. If you have a few wild boar moving through, you will be making your final selection while looking through your scope. My 2.5 - 10 scopes are nearly always up on 4 or 6 x magnification for this reason. Some of my most memorable driven game hunting has been where I was sat with my back to the Forrest’s looking out over large fields, scope wound up to 10 x and I can take my time , make my choice and roll one or more off at longer range. Over 10 years ago I had one occasion where I had to roll over a running Überläufer at 280 m on a big wide hilly field of winter wheat, Id not have been doing that with one of those Aimpoint jobs.
Don’t underestimate how well you can shoot with your current set up. Go and stick 20 or 40 cartridges through your rifle over a regular period of time- freehand, static shots and moving, or take a static target and swing through and shoot it if you don’t have a decent moving game range available to you. I’m lucky here as my range is in the next village to me under 10 minutes away. Best investment for you is buying £100 to 200 worth of very cheap range cartridges and practice with them before you go out.
Hope that’s of help .
Kindest regards, Olaf

Well written. I am hunting on driven hunts for about 17 years. I have an Aimpoint Micro H1 and Swarovski Z8i 2-16×50 on my R8 rifle. I have been in many different situations. I still can't say which optics is the best for driven hunting. All I can say is they all are good for something and non are good for everything. An Aimpoint is excellent when they get really close. But many times a nice oportunity presents itself to shoot on a game that is trotting far away undisturbed as there are no hunters in close proximity. In such situations at least some magnification is necessary and for this reason I prefer the scope most of the time. However, once you have a variable scope, chances are you will never have the right magnification and no time to dial the magnification ring. I've had situations when I had to shot with 4 times zoom at 3 m as there simply was no time to dial the scope. Every situation is different. I even made a perfect shot at a keiler at 150 m using an old Kahles 6×42. It was just the right zoom for the distance. Had there been an Aimpoint I probably wouldn't shoot at all as the distance would be to great to shoot without magnification.
Also many times we hunt red deer besides wild boar and it is very important to distinguish the animals. Pick the right ones for the harvest. And you can't do that at 100 m without magnification. I could use a pair of binoculars but like it was allready said, I would most probably miss the chance to shoot because of it as these situations sometimes took a split second and you simply miss your chance because of dealing with binoculars instead of aiming your rifle.
All in all I still prefer the scope over any red dot. Even 2× magnification with it's 21 m of field of view works great for driven hunting. Or 2,5 would be fine. Just remember to allways keep it at low mag and only when you really see the need to dial it up, then dial up.

 

[Olaf]

Well written. I am hunting on driven hunts for about 17 years. I have an Aimpoint Micro H1 and Swarovski Z8i 2-16×50 on my R8 rifle. I have been in many different situations. I still can't say which optics is the best for driven hunting. All I can say is they all are good for something and non are good for everything. An Aimpoint is excellent when they get really close. But many times a nice oportunity presents itself to shoot on a game that is trotting far away undisturbed as there are no hunters in close proximity. In such situations at least some magnification is necessary and for this reason I prefer the scope most of the time. However, once you have a variable scope, chances are you will never have the right magnification and no time to dial the magnification ring. I've had situations when I had to shot with 4 times zoom at 3 m as there simply was no time to dial the scope. Every situation is different. I even made a perfect shot at a keiler at 150 m using an old Kahles 6×42. It was just the right zoom for the distance. Had there been an Aimpoint I probably wouldn't shoot at all as the distance would be to great to shoot without magnification.
Also many times we hunt red deer besides wild boar and it is very important to distinguish the animals. Pick the right ones for the harvest. And you can't do that at 100 m without magnification. I could use a pair of binoculars but like it was allready said, I would most probably miss the chance to shoot because of it as these situations sometimes took a split second and you simply miss your chance because of dealing with binoculars instead of aiming your rifle.
All in all I still prefer the scope over any red dot. Even 2× magnification with it's 21 m of field of view works great for driven hunting. Or 2,5 would be fine. Just remember to allways keep it at low mag and only when you really see the need to dial it up, then dial up.

Very good and true, I agree with all you have written here. I’m out on a driven hunt in a cold and snowy Germany in about an hour from now. I’ve not hunted the part of the forrest where I’m heading to before , so will be taking both my rifles as from what I’ve seen, neither scope is perfect for that piece of ground. I will have my driven game scoped rifle in my hands at all times and the longer range set up right next to me. One with a 2.5-10 and the other with a 1.25 -4 driven scope. Hopefully my plan pays off !
Kindest regards, Olaf

 

[jthyttin]

chances are you will never have the right magnification and no time to dial the magnification ring.

Do you have a throw lever? I find it really makes a difference. Not that you necessarily will be able to change the zoom in each and every situation. You can also use it as tactile indicator that you're in correct zoom.

 

[WildBoarHunter]

There is no time to throw the lever if a boar is passing you fast at 10 m. And sometimes you just forget about the magnification in the heat of a moment. Only realising it when looking at your target through the scope. By then it is far too late to do anything but shoot or you miss your time to shot. I had multiple such situations. This is why I advised to always have the magnification at the lowest possible setting, only changing it if it is really necessary.
Also I had situation where I saw the sounder aproaching me at a distance. They were far away enough to make me dial the magnification up. But by the time I did it they were allready close to me, making me shoot with too high magnification.
I'm only trying to say that when using a scope on driven hunts they require some practice and experience to get the best out of them. But I still think they are a better tool than a red dot.
We have here a lot of older gents who are using iron sights and if they spot the game at a distance they put their 6×42 scopes on with quick attaching mounts. And still they are highly successful.
A lot about driven hunting equipment has to do with commercial part of things.

 

[Olaf]

There is no time to throw the lever if a boar is passing you fast at 10 m. And sometimes you just forget about the magnification in the heat of a moment. Only realising it when looking at your target through the scope. By then it is far too late to do anything but shoot or you miss your time to shot. I had multiple such situations. This is why I advised to always have the magnification at the lowest possible setting, only changing it if it is really necessary.
Also I had situation where I saw the sounder aproaching me at a distance. They were far away enough to make me dial the magnification up. But by the time I did it they were allready close to me, making me shoot with too high magnification.
I'm only trying to say that when using a scope on driven hunts they require some practice and experience to get the best out of them. But I still think they are a better tool than a red dot.
We have here a lot of older gents who are using iron sights and if they spot the game at a distance they put their 6×42 scopes on with quick attaching mounts. And still they are highly successful.
A lot about driven hunting equipment has to do with commercial part of things.

Once again, you have written very true and relevant words. Both of my .30 cal rifles have quick change mounts . I took two rifles with me this morning because I only had 5 cartridges for one and 3 for the other I’d let cartridges run low and had intended on making some this weekend, but then last night I got invited , at last moment , to a driven hunt so had to take both to cover all bases. As it stood , I saw 2 wild boar Überläufer and a red deer calf , but didn’t have a safe shot on all three occasions. A real shame. But, it was a beautiful morning, stunningly gorgeous snowy Niedersachsen forrest and I truly enjoyed it all . Had those two pigs not crossed where they did they would be on a peg now , and had the red deer calf not have been too far away( 50 m on flat slope away ground) I’d have nailed that one too. Lots of game, a great time. All in all, if I had only one scope, I’d have the 2.5- 10 x 50 Zeiss Diavari that’s 40 odd years old . Still, it’s fair enough, I’ve taken a wild boar on all of the 3 hunts I did in the past few weeks, so a blank day is ok by me .

Kindest regards, Olaf

 

[bowji john]

I have little experience of boar, but a little in the field of DG and guiding in DG territory

In the scenario of ‘stopping a charge’ easy target acquisition is preferable - red dot or irons are king here as the range (by law) is sub 15m

Hunting In rough bush where range just about starts to be significant - then a variable might be a preferred option

Even here, fast acquisition is still a prerequisite.

A 1 - 4 or 1 - 6 or 1 - 8 might be a candidate here as it represents flexibility without too much compromise close in

Cost is always a factor

It has been my limited experience that cost (or rather cost savings) is found in

The glass quality
Field of view
The resistance to recoil
The accuracy and repeatability of turrets
Eye relief

Turrets are perhaps not too important here as we don’t tend to dial

Glass quality is only really tested in poor light conditions

FOV is importing me but most scopes of that type are similar

Resistance to recoil is of course important

Eye relief is important to anyone that has been kissed by a scope atop a heavy recoiler

I tend to buy at the top end of the market
Coz I can - at my stage of life - afford it

More importantly, however, I like to reduce doubt

Is that target a fox in the gloom (insert DG equiv.) as I suspect- or something else?

Did that tap on the scope as I got it out of the car disturb the zero?

Can I acquire something that doesn’t like me before it arrives?

Is the scope up to the recoil?

Will the damp get into the scope or is it really waterproof ?

Top of the market is not by any means essential

As always - I make a choice and get to know it through practice and repetition

 

[Tazz]

Be careful there Elmer - the premium scope police will be onto you for daring to suggest something as ‘awful’ as a hawke!

Yes, Driven Boar and Hawke!!!, wash your mouth out with soapy water and then stand in the corner for a while

 

[jthyttin]

Adding to the bowji john post, if we change the scenery to Africa, Australia etc. then your variable scope might well become fixed mag... the dust just gets and sticks everywhere. More concern for PHs than tourists.

Also mounts can break. My friend luckily catched a S&B 1-4x in the air (before falling on concrete range floor), when Apel mounts broke cleanly on the CZ 458 Lott other friend was using...

 

[jthyttin]

There is no time to throw the lever if a boar is passing you fast at 10 m.

You must be using electronic ear defenders, if you don't get a warning sign that something is coming your way, until it's 10m away... (and I did say throw lever will not magically make you able to change mag in every situation).

Also I had situation where I saw the sounder aproaching me at a distance. They were far away enough to make me dial the magnification up. But by the time I did it they were allready close to me, making me shoot with too high magnification.

Go on and try throw lever. It will make changing the mag like 10x faster (if you go all the way, like I usually do since I use scopes starting at 1x). Lot of this has to do with the fact that you can do other stuff like shoulder the rifle while you're still on the lever. You don't have to spring for the model specific high buck levers, usually a breakaway coaster works just fine.

I remember a situation when I was first times using the (breakaway coaster) lever. We had Dachshund chasing the whitetail deer, my peg was at known crossing and midsize field was between me and the drive. A doe and kid appeared on far corner of the field, I promptly changed mag from 1x to 4x to assess the situation. When I got the rifle to shoulder, on side vision I noted another kid running towards me (following the crossing). I otherwise froze but changed mag back to 1x using the lever, the whole affair took like 3 seconds (1x -> 4x and view through scope -> 1x). After few more seconds the kid passed me and I sprung into action taking it down at 10m or so (and feeling in control, since I had the mag down).

 

[Heym SR20]

I think this is probably the optimum driven scope.

On a 1” tube it can be mounted low so cheek weld is really good.

And at 270 odd grams its light and doesn’t over balance a rifle

And its reticle is in 2nd focal plane, so still easy to see at 1x, but also good at 4x. (FFP often reticle is too fine at 1x to easily see on a running pig with a busy background such as woodland).

And no battery so doesn’t go dim when you need it

Leupold VX-Freedom 1.5-4x20 Rifle Scope

Leupold VX-Freedom 1.5-4x20 Rifle Scope. The new VX-Freedom delivers the legendary Leupold performance and dependability hunters and shooters have demanded for decades, combined with a host of new and improved features. The VX-Freedom is guaranteed to get the job done every time.

www.uttings.co.uk

 

[WildBoarHunter]

You must be using electronic ear defenders, if you don't get a warning sign that something is coming your way, until it's 10m away... (and I did say throw lever will not magically make you able to change mag in every situation).

Actually it was a stream running by my post.

 

[WildBoarHunter]

I think this is probably the optimum driven scope.

On a 1” tube it can be mounted low so cheek weld is really good.

And at 270 odd grams its light and doesn’t over balance a rifle

And its reticle is in 2nd focal plane, so still easy to see at 1x, but also good at 4x. (FFP often reticle is too fine at 1x to easily see on a running pig with a busy background such as woodland).

And no battery so doesn’t go dim when you need it

Leupold VX-Freedom 1.5-4x20 Rifle Scope

Leupold VX-Freedom 1.5-4x20 Rifle Scope. The new VX-Freedom delivers the legendary Leupold performance and dependability hunters and shooters have demanded for decades, combined with a host of new and improved features. The VX-Freedom is guaranteed to get the job done every time.

www.uttings.co.uk

I have something very similar on my Steyr Luxus rifle. Swarovski Habicht Nova 1,5-4,5×20 with a 1 inch tube. I like the light weight of the scope. It weights about 300 g. I found weight is very important. A heavy scope upsets the balance of the rifle and is a nuisance to carry. The Z8i range is a bit too heavy for my taste. The Z6i range is a nice compromise between magnification range and weight and this makes it the true allrounder. If I were buying a new driven scope it would probably be the Z6i 1-6×24 as this range is the most useful and weight of the scope is not an issue.

 

[jthyttin]

Agree, 1-6x is my current favorite zoom range for driven scope. It offers clear advantage over 1-4x, and is less fuzzy about eye position etc. as 1-8x designs.

My dream scope would have tiny "Aimpoint bright" dot in 2nd plane, and FFP reticle providing 7MRAD lead points on each side and half MRAD hash marks on bottom post. Main thing is lead marks, I have this setup on 2.5-10x Varipoint, in form of thick side bars. But the bottom post and hash marks will do no harm, so they'd be nice addition.

I'm currently using Leica Fortis (got a deal), while glass is very nice the illumination is not bright enough and whole reticle is in 2nd plane.

 

[EMcC]

I have a Swaro 2-6x24 flash dot and find that is better than most other options as it gives me a bit of mag if needed for observation and low power for use on running targets.

 

[artschool]

i had a successful hunt in germany before christmas with the z8i+ 1-8. the 1x makes a massive difference in picking up the moving target and also makes shooting with both eyes easier.

all the comments in this thread have been most appreciated.

 

[Nkawu]

I have a really nice Leupold VX-R 1.25-4x20 scope if anyone is looking for one. It has a 30mm tube and fire-dot circle reticle. I took it to the range once but I’m not getting along with 30mm scopes.

 

[ejg]

We had the 1-8x24 Exos Schmidt Bender on one of our show rifles at the hohe Jagd. Hundreds of people at the show thought it is a great little scope. I would love one. The illumination is controlled by the good old drum adjuster.
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