BASC launches register of competent deer stalkers

[big ears]

Ok, true, but I suspect the majority would.

As I said in an earlier post, there is more than one way to get stalking. Everyone seems to think you have to go door knockin, or drink a lot of beer at the local pub. Another option is to target the agents and other service providers to landowners, with all the credentials they need. It’s a much more efficient use of time IMO as those people often look after land for 3, 4, 5, etc, landowners, each with 000’s of acres across loads of farms. And they’re the shot callers too. With the right training you can help them complete there DMPs, cull returns, habitat assessments, keep the insurers happy, tick the H&S boxes, etc. Versus Joe who can’t, who is going to get the call? Also bear in mind that the majority of tenant farmers don’t have the right to give anyone else the right to shoot deer, often only the landowner can do that.

The list just adds another opportunity for people to get stalking. I don’t think anyone would, or should, rely on it entirely.

As others have said, I’ve never been asked.

The big question is whether this list WILL get people stalking. As I’ve posted before the onus is on BASC to be transparent and publish the results of this scheme showing how many ordinary members have benefited.

I have concerns and already the language suggests that this is not fully thought out.
Words like,”early days for the initiative “ suggest that the alleged demand for stalkers is not real but perceived by BASC.
We’re BASC to say ,”in the last year we have been approached by X number of landowners needing deer control” I would tend to buy into this more. Where X is a real number not a phrase like “many” or “some”.

We hear of falling numbers signing up to BASC as other organisations offer similar things at a reduced price I do wonder if this is a way to increase membership. All companies do it so it’s not wrong just that I would suggest that the chances of winning the euro millions and BASC finding you stalking are on a par.

You do need to be in it to win it but “I wouldn’t hold your breath about winning” is perhaps a better line.

BE

 

[Steve29]

You do need to be in it to win it but “I wouldn’t hold your breath about winning” is perhaps a better line.

On that we agree

 

[Neddle]

We’re fairly pushing the training and course thing on the SD this week eh?

Not long now until we tie our own sports noose…

Well said that man,I'm amazed how many have rolled over all ready

 

[David Barker]

I got about 4 pages in but it’s quite sad the amount of bickering .

Guy A has all the paperwork and feels it’s a must for a) b) & c).

Guy B has been stalking for years and doesn’t see the need.

I think it just comes down to what you want to do. -Lease FC land and you’ll need the paperwork. -Have a mate who’s a farmer, give a bottle of whiskey. But no real need to knock one another for the same ‘hobby’.

What slightly annoys me is that there’s various different deer stalking courses now which is slightly unhelpful. I don’t think these courses rule you out as a stalker but they should,(in theory) help with ruling in. I think most farmers care that you just have insurance - and that can be for shooting crows or anything.


I may do my DSC’s in the future. But not knocking anyone who has or hasn’t got them.

FLS no longer lease out ground choosing instead to put it to contractors so Scotland is not in the equation. This i can understand as maintaining Leases i am sure was a logistical nightmare. I also feel any landowner up here with deer problems would look to our government departments who involved at most levels with the planting process or the natural regeneration process. I would like to here from any one on here who receives a nice bit of free deer management. This would allow all to gauge if the list was worth while.

 

[devon deer stalker]

Also bear in mind that the majority of tenant farmers don’t have the right to give anyone else the right to shoot deer, often only the landowner can do that.

That is correct, although the tenant farmers sometimes believe they can, on one of my farms a tenant farmer said he was going to get 'his' stalker to control the deer, it was soon made clear by men and the owner that wasn't going to happen.
Conversely on another farm I'm on the tenant farmer has the shooting rights included in his tenancy agreement.

 

[VSS]

That is correct, although the tenant farmers sometimes believe they can, on one of my farms a tenant farmer said he was going to get 'his' stalker to control the deer, it was soon made clear by men and the owner that wasn't going to happen.
Conversely on another farm I'm on the tenant farmer has the shooting rights included in his tenancy agreement.

Tenant farmers can control deer, even if they do not have sporting rights. And I believe a tenant can employ a third party stalker to control deer, and recover the cost from the landowner.
However, the landowner should first be requested to sort out the deer himself. If that fails then the tenant can take alternative action

 

[Steve29]

Tenant farmers can control deer, even if they do not have sporting rights. And I believe a tenant can employ a third party stalker to control deer, and recover the cost from the landowner.
However, the landowner should first be requested to sort out the deer himself. If that fails then the tenant can take alternative action

It’s a digression from the OP, but, IMO your first sentence is incorrect, aside from in the circumstances of your third (which I would follow with your second), but it’s complex to say the least. There is some DI guidance that touches upon the mechanisms, but only scratches the surface. I personally wouldn’t want to get involved in such a situation, as a stalker.

I would be extremely wary of stalking deer on any tenanted land at a tenant’s invitation, without having the express written consent of the landowner or, at least, written confirmation from the tenant they their agreement expressly includes the sporting rights.

 

[David Barker]

It’s a digression from the OP, but, IMO your first sentence is incorrect, aside from in the circumstances of your third (which I would follow with your second), but it’s complex to say the least. There is some DI guidance that touches upon the mechanisms, but only scratches the surface. I personally wouldn’t want to get involved in such a situation, as a stalker.

I would be extremely wary of stalking deer on any tenanted land at a tenant’s invitation, without having the express written consent of the landowner or, at least, written confirmation from the tenant they their agreement expressly includes the sporting rights.

Wait till you get slapped with a section 7 for not killing deer Steve 29. Tenant farmers can control vermin and deer if they are having a negative effect on the lively hood

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

A short video as follows with a little more on the register. A FAQ is also being prepared.

 

[Steve29]

Wait till you get slapped with a section 7 for not killing deer Steve 29. Tenant farmers can control vermin and deer if they are having a negative effect on the lively hood

Why would I get one? And Section 7 of the Deer Act relates to shooting deer out of season I believe Section 98 of the Ag Act 1947 is the one that a landowner might expect to get a notice under for not controlling deer

 

[Pete6.5]

If I was after a deer manager this would be the order of importance
1. Do they have the time to do the job
2. Do they have experience of achieving a cull target
3. Do they have the equipment to carry out a cull over the whole ground. (Not just near the tracks that they can drag to) and the facilities to cold store them.
4. Do they have the contacts to move the deer on.
5. Do they have the correct insurance.
6. Do they have a financial plan to make it worth the time needed. (most people can only operate at a loss for so long)
7. What qualifications do they have.
8. Can the stalker help with impact surveys,deer number estimates and help with grant applications.

 

[Mike L]

Are you after a deer manager?

 

[David Barker]

Why would I get one? And Section 7 of the Deer Act relates to shooting deer out of season I believe Section 98 of the Ag Act 1947 is the one that a landowner might expect to get a notice under for not controlling deer

Home | Wild Deer Best Practice Guidance

bestpracticeguides.org.uk

 

[Steve29]

Home | Wild Deer Best Practice Guidance

bestpracticeguides.org.uk

I see, that’s Scotland. I hail from south of the border and we have different rules down here. My comments relate to tenants in England and Wales

 

[terrier1]

Roughly only a sixth of stalkers who have done DSC1 progress on to complete DSC2 (figures taken from DMQ website).
I wonder if this was also considered to be an encouragement for more stalkers to progress on to DSC2?

Hey up the penny seems to have dropped.
You should always think who is going to benefit from this.
Let's see a few more BASC members a few more applying for level two so they can get on the list. All revenue.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

A short video as follows with a little more on the register. A FAQ is also being prepared.

@David Barker and @LPF please show some maturity.

 

[David Barker]

@David Barker and @LPF please show some maturity.

I think its important to have a laugh ever now and then and i am sure you can see the funny side. I can honestly say you can have a laugh at my expense any time you like i will not take offence.

 

[Steve29]

A short video as follows with a little more on the register. A FAQ is also being prepared.

All very clear, simple and well put across. Thanks @Conor O'Gorman and well done James

 

[caorach]

There is a rather distasteful tendency for many in this country to want to be part of a secret club from which they can exclude others who don't meet their "standards."

Some time back there was a discussion on this forum about further training requirements for shooting in Scotland and, as usual, there were people in favour of this as it would allow them to join a little club where they could feel superior to others etc. The discussion mostly centred around how unsafe others were, how their venison would poison people, the usual stuff.

The thing with training (and being competent almost always requires someone to make cash from training, and others to gloat about having completed said training) is that it requires you to identify a problem, quantify the problem, design the training, provide the training, and quantify the improvement.

So I did some freedom of information requests to the competent authorities in Scotland asking for information on food poisoning incidents related to venison, deaths while stalking, people shot while stalking is taking place etc. All the usual stuff that is the subject of much discussion on this forum.

It turned out that the competent authorities had not one single record, ever, of food poisoning from venison, people shot by stalkers, and all that sort of stuff. The answer to every single one of my requests about "issues" that this training was supposed to fix were "zero." So the usual suspects were calling for training where there could be no measurable change to performance as you simply can't have less than zero cases of problems with the current training.

I'm a fan of BASC, I think they do the best they can in difficult circumstances. However no good ever comes out of more paperwork, more requirements, more cost, more management of your life, more people deciding where you can and can't stalk, more people trying to wrap up your stalking for their little club, etc.

 

[Steve29]

Who is excluded from joining BASC or taking DSC2? Both are open to anyone and everyone, for modest cost in comparison to most of the stuff we spend money on. To suggest it is a little or secret club is just wrong.

However no good ever comes out of more paperwork, more requirements, more cost, more management of your life, more people deciding where you can and can't stalk, more people trying to wrap up your stalking for their little club, etc.

No one is proposing more paperwork, requirements, etc, that’s already here. It’s just a list of contact details, for BASC to refer to if someone calls them seeking a stalker