Women in Shooting

[Morkai]

I don't think this is the flex you think it is and totally missed the point

Which is exactly on point then as it reflects the position BASC constantly put themselves in by missing the point of what the majority of their members want.

Would you prefer I reference a different industry or sport?

I have stated my reasons in post #53.

 

[nun_hunter]

Which is exactly on point then as it reflects the position BASC constantly put themselves in by missing the point of what the majority of their members want.

Would you prefer I reference a different industry or sport?

I have stated my reasons in post #53.

What is it that the majority want? Even less women involved in shooting sports? If not then there is room for BASC to encourage more females and not at the detriment of their other campaigns.

Seeing as women are by far the majority of people buying food and cooking in the UK it would be great to have more of them involved in shooting and therefore increasing the likelihood of purchasing and cooking more UK game? There's a whole thread running on just that.

Yes please to other sports or careers where women outnumber men in both physical numbers employed and also earning more too. It's easy to pick low paying or part time jobs that women do more than men, not to mention all the unpaid work they do. Childcare, cleaning, cooking, care of elderly relatives etc.

I would guarantee that there is (if at all) a tiny percentage of male members on here who earn less than their wives/girlfriends/mothers/daughters and do more unpaid work to keep the country functioning.

 

[samdk]

I was about to renew my BASC membership……. perhaps I won’t.

 

[Morkai]

What is it that the majority want?

• The lead ban consultation.
• One approach and consitency across the FLDs
• Reducing waiting times in issuing and renewals

Things of that nature, the topics that always come up.

Even less women involved in shooting sports? If not then there is room for BASC to encourage more females and not at the detriment of their other campaigns.

Nobody said they want fewer women involved in shooting sports.

Again, I'll say, my points are in #53

Seeing as women are by far the majority of people buying food and cooking in the UK it would be great to have more of them involved in shooting and therefore increasing the likelihood of purchasing and cooking more UK game? There's a whole thread running on just that.

Yes please to other sports or careers where women outnumber men in both physical numbers employed and also earning more too. It's easy to pick low paying or part time jobs that women do more than men, not to mention all the unpaid work they do. Childcare, cleaning, cooking, care of elderly relatives etc.

I would guarantee that there is (if at all) a tiny percentage of male members on here who earn less than their wives/girlfriends/mothers/daughters and do more unpaid work to keep the country functioning.

I work less hours and earn less than my partner, my salary isn't a pittance but she earns more.

 

[nun_hunter]

• The lead ban consultation.
• One approach and consitency across the FLDs
• Reducing waiting times in issuing and renewals

Things of that nature, the topics that always come up.



Nobody said they want fewer women involved in shooting sports.

Again, I'll say, my points are in #53



I work less hours and earn less than my partner, my salary isn't a pittance but she earns more.

BASC can directly influence who joins them and how they go about it so encouraging women is something they can definitely do, and should do.

What you have listed are things BASC can try and influence but most likely their impact (as proven) is less effective, but they are still doing those. It's not like they have stopped that and are diverting all resources and funding to this one new initiative.

As you said "nobody said they want fewer women in shooting" I think we'd all agree it would be better if there were more, but as soon as BASC suggest doing something about it they get torn down and told there isn't a problem. 6% clearly is a totally normal and acceptable percentage in a sport that welcomes women and has no barriers at all then??

4 pages of responses to this and barely any are positive and encouraging, that in itself is a barrier.

 

[8x57]

@MarinePMI

Just mind your head as I 'swing this lamp'...



View attachment 348689



Back in the day and issued with a Glock, we were working 'out of town' with another Force. They were issued with Sig Saur.

View attachment 348688

Turned out one of their officers (female) had issued a formal complaint, that she was being 'discriminated' because the grips on the Sig, were too big for her hands - this put her at a disadvantage .

She was entirely correct.

Fair play to her home Force, they ensured that their Sigs subsequently came with appropriate grips.

I don't know if it was actually discrimination, because some guys have small hands too. It was however certainly rather foolish to issue a weapon to someone who wasn't able to control it properly.

Thankfully this problem was recognised many years ago by the more progressive police departments in the U.S. and in the military resulting in several pistol manufacturers making firearms with a range of grip inserts so that the gun better fits the user's hand. The alternative prior to this was to issue a smaller firearm which on occasion would be one of a lesser calibre.

 

[Morkai]

As you said "nobody said they want fewer women in shooting" I think we'd all agree it would be better if there were more,

Yes, it would be better because there would be more people in the shooting community, I dont care what their gender is, it makes no difference.

but as soon as BASC suggest doing something about it they get torn down and told there isn't a problem. 6% clearly is a totally normal and acceptable percentage in a sport that welcomes women and has no barriers at all then??

Apart from kno*heads that will patronise men and women alike, no. There is no rule, legislation or systemic process in place to stop anyone other than men taking up shooting sports.

This is the same in workplaces, we employee thousands but locally about 200+, we have similar projects to promote women into the workforce.

In the 20years Ive been in the industry, I know of 4 women that have joined.

The opportunity is there, no barriers, many just dont want to, but for those that do, they can and have done.

Equal opportunity doesn't mean equal outcome.

 

[Pine Marten]

It's really quite simple: there aren't a lot of us so no one cares about us much. If there were twice as many of us, that would help. We've probably maxed out on old white blokes, but there's a lot of headroom everywhere else and in particular the 50% of the population who mostly don't shoot! That's not any sort of agenda, it's just numbers.

 

[nun_hunter]

I dont care what their gender is, it makes no difference.


There is no rule, legislation or systemic process in place to stop anyone other than men taking up shooting sports.



Equal opportunity doesn't mean equal .

You may not care and may not see a difference but that doesn't mean it's not there.

You may not care where you park your car at night in the dark, or what route you walk home alone but I guarantee every woman does think about that. Ask your girlfriend if she has ever had concerns about that.

You may not worry about going out in the middle of nowhere with a strange man to go shooting, but I bet it's crosses the mind of women who want to go stalking. I bet most the fathers of daughters on here have had concerns for their girls that they wouldn't have for their sons. Again, just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it's not real for others.

Equal opportunities and equality are old hat, equity and giving individuals the start point that is right for them without barriers is more important.

Ill thought out policies and procedures in the workplace rarely solve diversity issues because they're looking at it from the perspective that there isn't a problem and all we have to say is "hey you're welcome too, we don't discriminate" while not addressing any of the small issues that could help.

 

[Camdig]

This will have more to do with DEI (Diversity Equality Inclusion) and ESG (Environmental Social and Corporate governance) score than it will be genuinely wanting more woman involved.

 

[Morkai]

Ah, nice edit to my quote there to suit your reply, Nun Hunter....

 

[nun_hunter]

@Morkai out of interest where were your comments about not needing women only routes into field sports or the inequality for men in the nail technician industry in the thread below?

Ladies cull team

Last Friday a few ladies were leaving various destinations in the UK to head to Norfolk for a cull weekend. This is the second year running we have been invited to Norfolk courtesy of Lee Cooper who took a punt on us last year and decided we weren't too bad! 7 of us with a huge difference in not...

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

Why werent you, and all the others on here complaing at BASC directing your outrage at being treated so unfairly to the poster of that thread or the guy who hosted the womens cull day?

When there is a face and a name associated with something you all disagree with you can bite your tongue and say nothing but when it's a faceless organisation then the true colours come out.

Shame on you.

 

[Morkai]

@Morkai out of interest where were your comments about not needing women only routes into field sports or the inequality for men in the nail technician industry in the thread below?

Ladies cull team

Last Friday a few ladies were leaving various destinations in the UK to head to Norfolk for a cull weekend. This is the second year running we have been invited to Norfolk courtesy of Lee Cooper who took a punt on us last year and decided we weren't too bad! 7 of us with a huge difference in not...

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

Why werent you, and all the others on here complaing at BASC directing your outrage at being treated so unfairly to the poster of that thread or the guy who hosted the womens cull day?

When there is a face and a name associated with something you all disagree with you can bite your tongue and say nothing but when it's a faceless organisation then the true colours come out.

Shame on you.

Again, you havent read what I said in #55.

No shame on me.

 

[sikamalc]

Interesting replies, I wonder what @Artemis Deerstalking would wish to contribute?
They had a great time with the banned member Norfolk Deer Search on a ladies day, not their first or last either.
I have been taking out a member recently, great company.

On a different interest, as I teach fly fishing give me a female to teach any day of the week, they listen, and don't over power the cast!

I believe the owners are on here. And unlike many male deer stalkers, they don't seem to make such a fuss and make a bloody argument out of nothing on social media. Which again at the moment seems to be the case on this thread

I see some are digging up issues non related to this post again. They should get a job digging up roads. They seem to be constantly being dug up.

 

[Dunwaters]

For me it's this -

• BASC always miss the mark.
• BASC are continually seen to be letting shooters down and not pushing for what the majority of their members want.
• There are already well established groups supporting women's shooting which could do with a leg up from BASC.
• Support those groups to host events, dont rebrand & start your own when you can't even handle the issues you already have, it'll only stretch your finite resources.

It's not about the cause itself, it's the dipping into the easy win, public relations 'we care' signalling.

Can you please tell me exactly what the problem is with this BASC initiative?
How have they missed the mark?
How are they letting shooters down this time?
What makes you so certain that the best way to progress the program is through other groups with BASC’s help?
Why are you so certain that this is all about virtue signalling and not about growing shooting sports by seeking to increase participation amongst the 50% of the population which is currently under represented in all areas of the shooting industry.particularly when this cohort represents possibly the fastest growing sector of the market in the USA and remains very underrepresented in the UK?
I personally can’t see a single downside, but happy to have them pointed out.

 

[StephenToast]

Basc quotes their membership as 150,000. There are what 50 people responding to this thread?

Assuming they are all BASC members, and all incencesed by this new proposal I reckon BASC has alienated 0.03% of it's membership.

Personally if I was Connor I'd be saying."**** those backwards hillbillies!"

Got to admire his perseverance.

 

[tim@tcs]

. And that includes LGBTQQIP2SA shooters.

I thought mental illness precludes a certificate

 

[tim@tcs]

I personally can’t see a single downside, but happy to have them pointed out.

I can’t see how you can make it more inclusive to be honest! Most clay grounds I have been to have been ok for access and many women have shot or do shoot!
Equality of opportunity is good and that’s what we have at the moment.
Equality of outcome would require either forcing more women to shoot (good luck with that) and there are plenty of women I see shooting. Or reducing the amount of men shooting which is neither fair nor logical but is an equality of outcome result.
Should members money be used to promote women’s shooting? I don’t know if it’s necessary and it’s not my money so I don’t really care to be fair!
Plenty of examples of married couples where the husband has a certificate and the wife has a gun on it!
Plenty of evidence of women in shooting on the web too!

 

[Mike L]

I thought mental illness precludes a certificate

Well I never! It’s a dinosaur.

 

[Stalker62]

I thought mental illness precludes a certificate

I think most folk recognise that such matters are (invariably), not a matter which touches on mental illness.

I hope you know this.