Police missed a dog at 5 yards!!!!!!

Hot off the press this one chaps...My sister in law called this morning to tell us she had been woken by 10 police officers surrounding the house 2 doors down from her house. Its actually quite a nice street so it was a bit of a shock. One officer was leaning over the bonnet of her car with his rifle. They called for the occupant to come out but they didn’t...Then they let the dog out and one of the officers fired his carbine(or shotgun not sure) at it twice as it ran towards him...He missed with both shots :) and the dog turned tail and ran behind the house..Maybe he was a dog lover and just wanted to scare it off but his mates are going to give him some stick for that I recon. Apaprebntly the bust was linked to some armed robberies that have taken place around Cheshire so they had been told to shoot to kill if required...Not shoot to scare :)
 
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As there's so many people out there who can apparently do so much better than the 'old bill' perhaps there should be a move to attest them all and give them the chance to deal with those individuals who seek to make life less than pleasant for the rest of us.

Hands up those of you who wish to be in the place of the officers from nw london who are in intensive therapy with severed bowel and severe facial injuries whilst putting their lives second to yours!
 
Come on people get a grip, these officers were there to do deal with suspected armed robbers, not the sort of people renowned for their negotiating skills or willingness to to open front doors when they get knocked on. When you are in a situation like that all attention is focused on a safe and efficient solution to the task in hand and messing about trying to subdue a vicious dog with a biscuit or a slap with an ASP causes officers to take their attention of the targets. This in turn provides the target with the opportunity to escape or even cause harm to the officers concerned, so the efficient safe way is to eliminate the immediate threat, the dog in this case by shooting it.

As it happens in this case the dog was not shot but frightened enough to run away, and before everyone starts laughing about missing a target 5 yards away remember this is not a paper target, the shooter was not able to take his time aiming, it was a, presumably, fast moving dog, very close and getting closer, everyone on here would of course shot it straight between the eyes no bother at all. On top of that consider what happens to the dog now? chances are it will be placed in kennels until a court can decide it's fate as on the face of it there appears to be grounds for an allegation of a dangerous dog.

I remember an incident years ago when a dog, a Rotweiler, was shot during a raid on a house and the dog attacked. There was a huge internal investigation into it including a Post Mortem on the dog!

As usual in any contentious thread like this far too much "considered" opinion offered when not in possession of all the facts. These things are best left as just reported on until all of the information is in the public domain.

John

Fair play JayB you have a point to much said on to little info. But from what was said, shooting a dog thats running towards them from a house that contains people, the dog is between them. God every one bangs on about back drop this and that on this site, you really think the police could just make a snap decision and risk unnesscery colatoral damage? Sure they are under pressure and it's not that clear cut. Its not Beirut or Baghdad your talking about. I'm sure what ever way the event unfolded the officers in question acted accordingly.


It's nice to know there are people about like that dogs owner "Ive got three children, all under the age of six, so Id never keep dangerous dogs." said the man that has two Rottweilers and an american bulldog. If they don't fall under the description of potentially dangerous dogs what the hell does a poodle?

As there's so many people out there who can apparently do so much better than the 'old bill' perhaps there should be a move to attest them all and give them the chance to deal with those individuals who seek to make life less than pleasant for the rest of us.

Hands up those of you who wish to be in the place of the officers from nw london who are in intensive therapy with severed bowel and severe facial injuries whilst putting their lives second to yours!

Nope I bet nobody want to be there in their shoes and I bet most of us are grateful for their service. We live in an open society, we are free to voice our opinions and question our authorities. It's the oppisite of oppression. You want us all to shut up, sit quietly and do as we are told? Whatabout the man mentioned in the above link who was shot in the neck by a police riccochet whilst the police where shooting a dog, should he apoligise to the polie for being in the way of the bullet?
 
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As there's so many people out there who can apparently do so much better than the 'old bill' perhaps there should be a move to attest them all and give them the chance to deal with those individuals who seek to make life less than pleasant for the rest of us.

Hands up those of you who wish to be in the place of the officers from nw london who are in intensive therapy with severed bowel and severe facial injuries whilst putting their lives second to yours!
I don't think anyone is calling into question the courage and dedication of the police on the frontline. But are they not being let down by tactics and training that will be their very nature potentially lead to increased conflict situations which endanger innocent third parties e.g pigeon shooters being subjected to armed response squads etc.
 
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All I can is typical from the Police. Now of course the spin to make it sound acceptable will be in full on mode.


















Over to you guys.
 
Fair play JayB you have a point to much said on to little info. But from what was said, shooting a dog thats running towards them from a house that contains people, the dog is between them. God every one bangs on about back drop this and that on this site, you really think the police could just make a snap decision and risk unnesscery colatoral damage? Sure they are under pressure and it's not that clear cut. Its not Beirut or Baghdad your talking about. I'm sure what ever way the event unfolded the officers in question acted accordingly.



It's nice to know there are people about like that dogs owner "Ive got three children, all under the age of six, so Id never keep dangerous dogs." said the man that has two Rottweilers and an american bulldog. If they don't fall under the description of potentially dangerous dogs what the hell does a poodle?



Nope I bet nobody want to be there in their shoes and I bet most of us are grateful for their service. We live in an open society, we are free to voice our opinions and question our authorities. It's the oppisite of oppression. You want us all to shut up, sit quietly and do as we are told? Whatabout the man mentioned in the above link who was shot in the neck by a police riccochet whilst the police where shooting a dog, should he apoligise to the polie for being in the way of the bullet?


Just thought I was expressing my opinion, don't think I told anyone to shut up
 
Unless you are dealing with an armed siege why create one?

This is one of those situations that can be dealt with in a perfectly calm and reasonable manner by just about anyone, with the benefit of hindsight from the comfort of anywhere other than where it all took place. It is not a matter of creating an armed siege, it is a matter of having a policy that is designed to deal with potentially dangerous situations and that can hopefully be further tweaked and adapted on site when dealing with the situation. People on here are very often heard to express the view that too much gun is better than too little, is not the same true here, resources can either be used or not as the circumstances dictate. In these type of situations the circumstances are fluid and liable to change at a moments notice, as in the dog being released to attack the officers. If it had transpired that the occupants were armed and ready to use those weapons and there had been no armed Police on site, then the outrage would have been over the Police not anticipating these events and being ready to deal with the situation. They are in a no win situation. I am not saying that mistakes do not happen, tragedies do occur but unless you are there being faced with these lunatics and their antics I fail to see how you can accurately assess the situation.

John
 
This is one of those situations that can be dealt with in a perfectly calm and reasonable manner by just about anyone, with the benefit of hindsight from the comfort of anywhere other than where it all took place. It is not a matter of creating an armed siege, it is a matter of having a policy that is designed to deal with potentially dangerous situations and that can hopefully be further tweaked and adapted on site when dealing with the situation. People on here are very often heard to express the view that too much gun is better than too little, is not the same true here, resources can either be used or not as the circumstances dictate. In these type of situations the circumstances are fluid and liable to change at a moments notice, as in the dog being released to attack the officers. If it had transpired that the occupants were armed and ready to use those weapons and there had been no armed Police on site, then the outrage would have been over the Police not anticipating these events and being ready to deal with the situation. They are in a no win situation. I am not saying that mistakes do not happen, tragedies do occur but unless you are there being faced with these lunatics and their antics I fail to see how you can accurately assess the situation.

John
From what I have read in this thread I understand that the police fired a random shot at a dog, which may or may not have been sent by a fugitive to distract them, there is a conjectural element about this. The critical thing is the police discharged a firearm whilst not themselves being fired on and within a built up residential area. It can therefore be purely a matter of good fortune that some innocent third party was neither killed nor injured by this reckless act.
 
Come on people get a grip, these officers were there to do deal with suspected armed robbers, not the sort of people renowned for their negotiating skills or willingness to to open front doors when they get knocked on. When you are in a situation like that all attention is focused on a safe and efficient solution to the task in hand and messing about trying to subdue a vicious dog with a biscuit or a slap with an ASP causes officers to take their attention of the targets. This in turn provides the target with the opportunity to escape or even cause harm to the officers concerned, so the efficient safe way is to eliminate the immediate threat, the dog in this case by shooting it.

As it happens in this case the dog was not shot but frightened enough to run away, and before everyone starts laughing about missing a target 5 yards away remember this is not a paper target, the shooter was not able to take his time aiming, it was a, presumably, fast moving dog, very close and getting closer, everyone on here would of course shot it straight between the eyes no bother at all. On top of that consider what happens to the dog now? chances are it will be placed in kennels until a court can decide it's fate as on the face of it there appears to be grounds for an allegation of a dangerous dog.

I remember an incident years ago when a dog, a Rotweiler, was shot during a raid on a house and the dog attacked. There was a huge internal investigation into it including a Post Mortem on the dog!

As usual in any contentious thread like this far too much "considered" opinion offered when not in possession of all the facts. These things are best left as just reported on until all of the information is in the public domain.

John

JAYB makes perfect sense in what is said here.

I will also throw in my tuppence worth.

Never, would an instruction be given to shoot to wound. So, every time a weapon is discharged at a target by the police, whether a potentially dangerous dog or human, the intention is to eliminate that threat. The only way to do that for certain is to kill it. Think back to the grilling the SAS got during the Gibraltar terrorist killings about why one had 17 bullets in him. 'Because I ran out of bullets...'

17 chances to stop a bomb being remotely detonated, damn right every one would be in use.

The dog, or an armed man for that matter can still injure or kill if wounded. Now I am not suggesting that the police should act in the same way as members of the forces, but a dog running at officers, not one with an opposing thumb that managed to open the door itself, but one that was obviously allowed out the house, has become a weapon to be used by the suspects. Dozens of strange humans on its territory, wearing scary black helmets and face masks, you think it was running towards them to get an ear rubbed?

Yes, the police are sometimes justifiably accused of over-reacting but they act on intelligence they receive. It would appear, and that is as much as we can speculate on, that they thought suspects who had carried out armed robberies were within. So they turned up en mass to secure a locus and protect members of the public there as well.

And just for the record, I saw a woman being attacked by her boyfriends German Shephard in a public park many years ago. She sustained several bites to her arms, legs and neck. She died the next day in hospital.

The officer may have missed, but his actions in my opinion were completely justified given the facts as we have them. As was the number of armed police at that locus.
 
From what I have read in this thread I understand that the police fired a random shot at a dog, which may or may not have been sent by a fugitive to distract them, there is a conjectural element about this. The critical thing is the police discharged a firearm whilst not themselves being fired on and within a built up residential area. It can therefore be purely a matter of good fortune that some innocent third party was neither killed nor injured by this reckless act.

You are making some pretty high handed judgements from this information. I assumed you were in possession of all the facts given the positive nature of your comments.

Read Jamross65's comments and include those in your deliberations, do you still draw the same conclusions. You need to be there to understand it fully and you need the full facts before you can draw satifactory conclusions

John
 
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JAYB makes perfect sense in what is said here.

I will also throw in my tuppence worth.

Never, would an instruction be given to shoot to wound. So, every time a weapon is discharged at a target by the police, whether a potentially dangerous dog or human, the intention is to eliminate that threat. The only way to do that for certain is to kill it. Think back to the grilling the SAS got during the Gibraltar terrorist killings about why one had 17 bullets in him. 'Because I ran out of bullets...'

17 chances to stop a bomb being remotely detonated, damn right every one would be in use.

The dog, or an armed man for that matter can still injure or kill if wounded. Now I am not suggesting that the police should act in the same way as members of the forces, but a dog running at officers, not one with an opposing thumb that managed to open the door itself, but one that was obviously allowed out the house, has become a weapon to be used by the suspects. Dozens of strange humans on its territory, wearing scary black helmets and face masks, you think it was running towards them to get an ear rubbed?

Yes, the police are sometimes justifiably accused of over-reacting but they act on intelligence they receive. It would appear, and that is as much as we can speculate on, that they thought suspects who had carried out armed robberies were within. So they turned up en mass to secure a locus and protect members of the public there as well.

And just for the record, I saw a woman being attacked by her boyfriends German Shephard in a public park many years ago. She sustained several bites to her arms, legs and neck. She died the next day in hospital.

The officer may have missed, but his actions in my opinion were completely justified given the facts as we have them. As was the number of armed police at that locus.

Hallelujah, finally some common sense being spoken.......Shooting off door hinges........someone has been watchin to many John Wayne films :rofl:

Wait till the local rag is published and then we will get the true story coz they always know all the facts !!!:banghead:
 
Hardly the basis for informed comment as it states quite clearly the facts are hot yet known.

John
With all due respect I reiterate that my comments are based on what we were told at the start of the thread,it is a matter of regret to me if it offends you but I am afraid that we must agree to differ on this.
 
the best thing for a nippy dog is a hole.
maybe they never had room in the van for a hole , along with all the other gear . And another thing has anyone given any thought to the fact that it might not have been a dog at all ? It could have been one of the crooks dressed as a dog , who opened the door and fired first hence the 2 shots , we dont know the full facts . Maybe it was a very small dog and thats why they missed , maybe police are using jack russels now what with cut backs and that . Who knows
 
Ok he missed from 5 yards, fair enough but can you imagine if he had injured the dog through a bad shot and runing all over the estate with a injury better to miss than injure, same inrelation to deer, better to miss than injury. Yes he might get greif but at least he can sleep at ease.

Weeman
 
This thread is completely unrelated to stalking and its hardly worth discussing any further as no one knows the facts other than the Officers who were actually there.

:coat:
 
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