Lever action

[phillc]

As this thread has been revived, and I've now read all 14 pages, maybe I can add something as I've been down the lever action rabbit hole for quite some time now.

At first I thought I wanted a magazine fed lever action to shoot pointy bullets, like the BLR, Henry Long Ranger, Winchester 1895, Savage 88 or Finnwolf. I was looking for a 308 and it was going to be my pig gun (I currently only own a Husqvarana 1640 in 6.5x55 and thought maybe a little more oomph would be nice for piggies). A Finnwolf in 308 came up for sale near me last summer for €3000. At the time I ummed and aaahed about the price etc, and of course missed out as someone else with more fortitude jumped in ahead of me. I'd still be tempted by a BLR Lightweight 81 stainless takedown, if one showed up at a reasonable price. I never see the Long Ranger on the second hand market.

Now, I'm thinking a 30-30 could be just the thing. Not too bad recoil, which I need due to a dodgy shoulder. I shoot left handed and every left handed bolt action I find is madly overpriced, so perhaps a lever action is just what I need. Winchester 94 AE is probably an obvious choice and reasonably easy to come by. There's one for sale near me now for €1650 with a Kahles 2.5-10x50 scope. Probably overscoped and overpriced. Still, I could sell the Kahles and bring things back to a reasonable amount, maybe. I quite like the look of the Marlin 336 XLR with the pistol grip, build quality sould be sorted be now! Anyway, there's a tonne of options.

I've also thought quite a lot about whether 30-30 is capable enough for what I want to use it for. It wouldn't be long range work obviously. Although I've only seen it mentioned once in this thread, the Hornady LEVERevolution factory ammunition could be the way forward. Pointy bullets, but designed for tube fed lever actions. Both 140gr and 160gr rounds are rated at over 2000 ft-lbs of energy (I'm sure a long-ish barrel is needed for those numbers. None of your 16-inch nonsense). Not the cheapest route, but everything I read about this ammo rates it extremely highly.

I'm not too bothered by commponents and ammunition being hard to find. I don't think this is an issue, at least where I live (Austria), as there's always a decent amount of 30-30s (specifically Winchester 94s in various guises) listed for sale at any time. Anyway, this is from the man who saw a Remington 591 for sale, chambered for the very short lived 5mm Remington Magnum rimfire, for €400 and thought, "How hard could it really be to find ammo for that?". I didn't buy it, but the rifle is still for sale not far from me, so who knows what happens next week.

However, that Ruger No. 3 posted above by @drone looks delightful! I've also been lusting over a Sako L461 Vixen in 222, so something around that calibre has a place in my cabinet. I've not come across Ruger No. 3 before, in all my research, but now it looks like my morning is sorted.....

 

[Smellydog]

As this thread has been revived, and I've now read all 14 pages, maybe I can add something as I've been down the lever action rabbit hole for quite some time now.

At first I thought I wanted a magazine fed lever action to shoot pointy bullets, like the BLR, Henry Long Ranger, Winchester 1895, Savage 88 or Finnwolf. I was looking for a 308 and it was going to be my pig gun (I currently only own a Husqvarana 1640 in 6.5x55 and thought maybe a little more oomph would be nice for piggies). A Finnwolf in 308 came up for sale near me last summer for €3000. At the time I ummed and aaahed about the price etc, and of course missed out as someone else with more fortitude jumped in ahead of me. I'd still be tempted by a BLR Lightweight 81 stainless takedown, if one showed up at a reasonable price. I never see the Long Ranger on the second hand market.

Now, I'm thinking a 30-30 could be just the thing. Not too bad recoil, which I need due to a dodgy shoulder. I shoot left handed and every left handed bolt action I find is madly overpriced, so perhaps a lever action is just what I need. Winchester 94 AE is probably an obvious choice and reasonably easy to come by. There's one for sale near me now for €1650 with a Kahles 2.5-10x50 scope. Probably overscoped and overpriced. Still, I could sell the Kahles and bring things back to a reasonable amount, maybe. I quite like the look of the Marlin 336 XLR with the pistol grip, build quality sould be sorted be now! Anyway, there's a tonne of options.

I've also thought quite a lot about whether 30-30 is capable enough for what I want to use it for. It wouldn't be long range work obviously. Although I've only seen it mentioned once in this thread, the Hornady LEVERevolution factory ammunition could be the way forward. Pointy bullets, but designed for tube fed lever actions. Both 140gr and 160gr rounds are rated at over 2000 ft-lbs of energy (I'm sure a long-ish barrel is needed for those numbers. None of your 16-inch nonsense). Not the cheapest route, but everything I read about this ammo rates it extremely highly.

I'm not too bothered by commponents and ammunition being hard to find. I don't think this is an issue, at least where I live (Austria), as there's always a decent amount of 30-30s (specifically Winchester 94s in various guises) listed for sale at any time. Anyway, this is from the man who saw a Remington 591 for sale, chambered for the very short lived 5mm Remington Magnum rimfire, for €400 and thought, "How hard could it really be to find ammo for that?". I didn't buy it, but the rifle is still for sale not far from me, so who knows what happens next week.

However, that Ruger No. 3 posted above by @drone looks delightful! I've also been lusting over a Sako L461 Vixen in 222, so something around that calibre has a place in my cabinet. I've not come across Ruger No. 3 before, in all my research, but now it looks like my morning is sorted.....

Savage 99 not 88, Winchester made the 88 buddy .

There are videos of 30-30 being used on pigs, check it out.

You don't need pointy bullets. I was shooting my 30-30 to 300yds recently.
Best wishes.

 

[drone]

SD I prefer to call it BS, folklore is too nice.

 

[phillc]

Savage 99 not 88, Winchester made the 88 buddy .

There are videos of 30-30 being used on pigs, check it out.

You don't need pointy bullets. I was shooting my 30-30 to 300yds recently.
Best wishes.

Typo. Thanks for the correction. Too late to edit now.

My scribblings about the pointy bullets was mostly to do with their velocity and energy, with regards to the extensive "deer legal" commentary on this thread.

I have spent quite some YouTube time watching people with 30-30s do things.

 

[drone]

I inserted these two images that may, eventually contribute to either BS or folklore, on the left winchester 150 grain FP, on the right Hornady 160 grn FTX. Both are lying in a scale rule which closely approximates a winchester magazine.
Which one is likely to hit the primer?
Remember gravity works one way only, 24/7, and the rounds are held, fore and aft, in place with a spring.
It's fairly safe to assume that this is the way that rounds lie in a tubular magazine. Go figure.

If you want to make the ft.lbs or joules level specified with a pointy bullet in a 30/30, Barnes TTSX 130 grain will do it, similar polymer tip to the FTX but don't be tempted to use heavier ttsx as I don't think they will stabilise in the win 94 twist rate. Penetration is said to be remarkable at 30/30 velocities but I have to say this was a recommendation via an intermediary so it's an internet reply.
2500 fps out of a 20" barrel is a nice load that generates over 1800 ft.lbs using cfe 223 and at sensible, sub 40000 psi, predicted pressure levels. Probably hodgdons H-lvr will be faster but IIRC at slightly higher pressures.

Here's a ballistic prediction chart for the 130grn TTSX bullet out to 300 yards, copied from shooterscalculator.com.There's a 10mph wind allowance in there that I didn't mean to include.
As you can see it predicts that it will retain more than 1000ft.lbs of energy out to 275 yards and, more importantly, exceeds the 1800 fps at that range that makes expansion much more likely. (I think barnes suggest 1600 fps as the lower limit but best be sure and 275 yards is a helluva way for me).

Range	Elevation	Elevation	Elevation	Windage	Windage	Windage	Time	Energy	Vel[x+y]
(yd)	(in)	(MOA)	(MIL)	(in)	(MOA)	(MIL)	(s)	(ft.lbf)	(ft/s)
0	-1.50	0.00	0.00	0.04	0.00	0.00	0.00	1804	2500
25	-0.55	2.10	0.61	0.10	0.39	0.11	0.03	1716	2438
50	0.02	-0.04	-0.01	0.31	0.58	0.17	0.06	1632	2378
75	0.21	-0.27	-0.08	0.65	0.83	0.24	0.09	1551	2318
100	0.00	0.00	0.00	1.14	1.09	0.32	0.13	1473	2259
125	-0.64	0.49	0.14	1.78	1.36	0.40	0.16	1398	2201
150	-1.73	1.10	0.32	2.58	1.64	0.48	0.19	1326	2144
175	-3.30	1.80	0.52	3.54	1.93	0.56	0.23	1258	2087
200	-5.36	2.56	0.74	4.67	2.23	0.65	0.27	1192	2032
225	-7.95	3.37	0.98	5.98	2.54	0.74	0.30	1128	1977
250	-11.09	4.23	1.23	7.47	2.85	0.83	0.34	1068	1923
275	-14.82	5.14	1.50	9.15	3.18	0.92	0.38	1010	1870
300	-19.18	6.10	1.77	11.03	3.51	1.02	0.42	955	1818

Looks like it's point blank out to 200 yards on deer/pig if you zero at 100 yards and hold on the spine.
If you decide to experiment, please engage brain first and start at least 5% below the start at load and stop when you reach your accuracy/speed node. These bullets work fine in my 94 as do their untipped brethren the 130 grn TSX but this is the internet fellas, would you trust me with your face?
Anyhow as I said if you experiment, start with low charges and max COAL, in my w-w cases they are nearly upto the neck with cfe223.
According to Barnes it's a good idea to allow the bullets a fairly lengthy jump from coal to lands, at one stage I worried about this but as far as I'm concerned 2moa is ok for me (actually it's my 30/30 holy grail) but I've stopped worrying now as I can load the 150s in my 308 BLR if the need arises so the 30/30 is now mono free and back on a cast diet.
I'll point out one snippet, the max COAL for the 30/30 is 2.55". The ogive shape of these Barnes bullets allows them to cycle OK at slightly longer length, which I found by accident, I never shot them as it was a variable I hadn't thought through.

Just saying.......

 

[Smellydog]

With regards to tubular magazines....don't be tempted to fit a lighter magazine spring.
It's weight is a crucial factor in preventing percussion under the recoil cycle of loaded rounds.
As long as they can't shuffle under recoil nothing can happen.

 

[tayweb]

Check out Browning Lever Rifle in 7mm, 270, 30-06, etc. Not sure about availability in the UK. I have a hand-me-down Browning lever gun chambered in 243 that I like.