licensing fees - ACPO proposal

[David63]

As some of you may have read in this weeks Shooting Times, A rise of up to 88% in licensing fees for shotgun and firearms certificate holders has been proposed by the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO).

The increases are outlined in a briefing paper prepared for the Home Office by ACPO's Firearms and Explosives Licensing Working Group.

If the proposals are accepted, they would increase the cost of obtaining a firearm or shotgun certificate from £50 to £93.80 - a rise of 88%.

Standard certificate renewals would rise from £40 to £66, an increase of 65% cent.

The NGO are writing to the relevant Home Office minister to complain about these proposals, I applaud them for getting involed with this fight and I am very pleased that another organisation is supporting BASC long held position.

It has long been BASC’s position that before there is any increase in licence fees there must be a consistent approach. We want all police forces to follow Home Office guidelines which is not being done across the board. They have got to conform to this standard. They cannot ask for ‘full cost recovery’ on licence fees before they show that they are efficient, that costs are minimised and that a standardised approach to licensing is applied across the country.

We want a full and thorough examination of licensing procedures across every police force in the country to make sure they are firstly adhering to Home Office guidelines and secondly applying a consistent and practical approach to firearms licensing.

This is an important issue, I am sure you all agree!
David

 

[Tikka 260]

Agreed - but not holding my breath for any kind of consistency.

 

[Si]

Agreed - but not holding my breath for any kind of consistency.

I don't see why not, the Home Office Guidlines are not that difficult to understand.

 

[timbrayford]

As some of you may have read in this weeks Shooting Times, A rise of up to 88% in licensing fees for shotgun and firearms certificate holders has been proposed by the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO).

The increases are outlined in a briefing paper prepared for the Home Office by ACPO's Firearms and Explosives Licensing Working Group.

If the proposals are accepted, they would increase the cost of obtaining a firearm or shotgun certificate from £50 to £93.80 - a rise of 88%.

Standard certificate renewals would rise from £40 to £66, an increase of 65% cent.

The NGO are writing to the relevant Home Office minister to complain about these proposals, I applaud them for getting involed with this fight and I am very pleased that another organisation is supporting BASC long held position.

It has long been BASC’s position that before there is any increase in licence fees there must be a consistent approach. We want all police forces to follow Home Office guidelines which is not being done across the board. They have got to conform to this standard. They cannot ask for ‘full cost recovery’ on licence fees before they show that they are efficient, that costs are minimised and that a standardised approach to licensing is applied across the country.

We want a full and thorough examination of licensing procedures across every police force in the country to make sure they are firstly adhering to Home Office guidelines and secondly applying a consistent and practical approach to firearms licensing.

This is an important issue, I am sure you all agree!
David

I agree with and support the BASC on this, but surely this is the time to ask for a centralised licensing office rather than each force having one. I believe that this could most efficiently be achieved if the task remained with the police as per firearms act, but with interested forces having to put in competitive bids against each other to get the contract. Local FEO's would be retained and report back a single (national) management team rather than the current duplicated, inconsistent and inefficient process. Of course if we don't ask for this all we will get is ACPO trying to screw as much money out of the shooting community as it can for a service which on occasion leaves a lot to be desired with no incentive to improve

 

[widu13]

Agreed. My local force are a rule unto themselves. Just sent my ticket back for mentoring to be removed. Phoned up after a week and asked how long it would be. 12 weeks was the reply and that they dealt with each enquiry chronologically. I explained that it was simply a case of editing the ticket text and reprinting- 3 mins tops and another 3 to post. It fell on deaf ears!

 

[David63]

I must stress, that is not just BASC taking this forward, the NGO are vey much in the battle too and we have exactly the same objectives.

Personally I don’t mind paying a reasonable fee – if the service is there.

The cost of a licence has not changed for ages though so put that in context and even with a RPI increase since the last price change we would be somewhere near what’s being proposed.

Consistency is perfectly possible, there is one Act and one set of Home Office Guidance and one set of ACPO best practice, all the police licensing teams have to do is follow the HO / ACPO guidance and that’s it.

But several don’t, they add in silly protocols and procedures that are not in the guidance that take time and money for no public benefit what so ever then deliver a poor service to the shooters!

Throwing more money at an inefficient and inconsistent system that several licensing authorities seem to have created themselves won’t fix the problem.

David

 

[Orion]

In addition to the lack of consistency between the forces in administering the Firearms Acts and failure to follow the HO Guidelines, you could add that many of them are failing to process and renew/grant certificates within a reasonable timescale - often putting FAC holders in a potentially serious position. Particularly so if they fob them off with excuses and warm words instead of issuing a Section 7 Permit when they overrun. Presumably because they don't want permit issue to be monitored and count against them?

 

[deerpath]

I do not understand the need for the onerous part 1 FAC. The shotgun certificate is quite adequate. Or are we saying that shotguns are less lethal ? All weapons are lethal in the wrong hands, even knives ! What are the crime stats for crime with a) legally held shotguns b)legally held rifles c) illegally held all firearms. Mentoring seems to have crept in with Devon & Cornwall recently. Central licensing to Home Office guidelines is the only way forward.

 

[shootingduckdog]

shotguns are less lethal!!! I'll stand 200m away from you whilst you take a punt at me with your shottie and then I'll pop back with my 30-06. We can even introduce a wooden door or similar for cover if you like.

I agree that if the fees go up, and at some point they surely must then we should get good service across the board. N Yorks are generally very good however.

 

[finnbear270]

Maybe we should spend some of our members money on pushing things a little more, rather than sending the odd letter here & there?............ & No I'm certainly not B.A.S.C. bashing here either, just wanting a bit of service, (Read clout).

 

[David63]

I agree!

 

[shootingduckdog]

For the absolute record I am NOT suggesting a duel, it is merely an illustrative example.

Back on topic everyone

 

[barongcw]

It has long been BASC’s position that before there is any increase in licence fees there must be a consistent approach. We want all police forces to follow Home Office guidelines which is not being done across the board. They have got to conform to this standard. They cannot ask for ‘full cost recovery’ on licence fees before they show that they are efficient, that costs are minimised and that a standardised approach to licensing is applied across the country.


David

I hate to think what the costs will be of a centralised system and these costs will doubtless have to be paid by the license holders.

Also I much prefer to deal with a local police force whom I know and who know me rather than with a centralised bureaucratie.

Since I lived in the UK I have dealt with 4 different forces and have found them ranging from reasonable to extremely helpful. The most difficult one was Somerset but eventually they came round to my views.
At present I live in Dorset and that force could not be more helpfull. Just renewed my FAC and SC without any problem whatsoever and I have 10 rifles and quite a few shotguns.

The proposed new fees of about £ 150 for 5 years are less than 25% of what I have to pay in the Netherlands now.

 

[barongcw]

<br>
<br>
It has long been BASC’s position that before there is any increase in licence fees there must be a consistent approach. We want all police forces to follow Home Office guidelines which is not being done across the board. They have got to conform to this standard. They cannot ask for ‘full cost recovery’ on licence fees before they show that they are efficient, that costs are minimised and that a standardised approach to licensing is applied across the country.

David

<br>

I hate to think what the costs will be of a centralised system and these costs will doubtless have to be paid by the license holders.

Also I much prefer to deal with a local police force whom I know and who know me rather than with a centralised bureaucratie.

Since I lived in the UK I have dealt with 4 different forces and have found them ranging from reasonable to extremely helpful. The most difficult one was Somerset but eventually they came round to my views.

At present I live in Dorset and that force could not be more helpfull. Just renewed my FAC and SC without any problem whatsoever and I have 10 rifles and quite a few shotguns.

The proposed new fees of about £ 150 for 5 years are less than 25% of what I have to pay in the Netherlands now.

 

[timbrayford]

<br>

I hate to think what the costs will be of a centralised system and these costs will doubtless have to be paid by the license holders.

Also I much prefer to deal with a local police force whom I know and who know me rather than with a centralised bureaucratie.

Since I lived in the UK I have dealt with 4 different forces and have found them ranging from reasonable to extremely helpful. The most difficult one was Somerset but eventually they came round to my views.

At present I live in Dorset and that force could not be more helpfull. Just renewed my FAC and SC without any problem whatsoever and I have 10 rifles and quite a few shotguns.

The proposed new fees of about £ 150 for 5 years are less than 25% of what I have to pay in the Netherlands now.

To clarify my post I believe that these costs are already met under existing police funding, i.e. Existing licensing offices would have to bid against each other to provide the service for all, with the contract being awarded to the force able to offer the best service at the best price. I also think this will appeal to the Treasury as once established they will be able to remove a signficant number of senior management from the public pay roll. Local contact would still be maintained by the retention of local FEO's

 

[jay 22]

well if it does go i up to £96 pound i hope west mercia really pull there fingers out. i find it hard to swallow at the moment when paying £26 to add a rifle to my ticket and its taking 6 months !

where other forces are turning theres round in the matter of weeks if not a couple of days !!!!

 

[Dickie]

Well the local FEO contact and knowledge is going I heard a rumour A & S are going to use beat bobbies or firearms officers to do visits and not have dedicated personel.

 

[timbrayford]

Well the local FEO contact and knowledge is going I heard a rumour A & S are going to use beat bobbies or firearms officers to do visits and not have dedicated personel.

IMO a big step backwards local FEO's are a vital local contact point

 

[Frank Homes]

David BASC

The price we pay at the moment- £50 (how much is a fishing licence) for 5 years on a Co-term. licence is cheap. So the increase is modest when you consider when it was last raised,and to expect better service for the money is pie in the sky for as far as I know the fees just go into central funds and most Constabularies aren't interested in Firearms Licensing so they don't see any of it.
And you can forget about consistency that is never going to happen , it is the nature of the beast. Just by adopting HO guidance doesn't mean it's good for everyone, there is plenty of stuff in there that is not helpful to shooters. It needs amending not adopting why don't you push for that?

Frank

 

[cjm1066]

We need to understand the work involved, and remove all the extra’s that the police like to invent before we can get to a properly calculated fee.

Possibly in these times of austerity, we may have an opportunity to look at this, after all we want the police fighting crime not acting as administration officers.