Shotgun ammunition.

[Heym SR20]

To get other opinions - is there an issue with that?

Anyone that thinks all people interpret the laws and guidance the same are fools.

So please suggest how anyone interpret this differently. Section 1 gives the requirements for a Firearm Certificate to hold a firearm or ammunition with certain exceptions:

This section applies to any ammunition for a firearm, except the following articles, namely:—

(a)cartridges containing five or more shot, none of which exceeds ·36 inch in diameter;

So unless you can argue a different method of counting or a difference in measurement then the law is pretty clear.

 

[gixer1]

So please suggest how anyone interpret this differently. Section 1 gives the requirements for a Firearm Certificate to hold a firearm or ammunition with certain exceptions:

This section applies to any ammunition for a firearm, except the following articles, namely:—

(a)cartridges containing five or more shot, none of which exceeds ·36 inch in diameter;

So unless you can argue a different method of counting or a difference in measurement then the law is pretty clear.

Ok, just to play devils advocate, (bearing in mind not all people reading the guidance and laws are familiar with inches) does the cartridge need to be less than .36?

That’s an example of interpretation.

Your original response was curt, Unhelpful and condescending…if you have nothing better to do I suggest you find another thread to demonstrate your superiority on.

 

[Mike L]

Ok, just to play devils advocate, (bearing in mind not all people reading the guidance and laws are familiar with inches) does the cartridge need to be less than .36?

Yes, none to exceed .36” or 9.1mm

 

[skinnywhitetrash]

Ok, just to play devils advocate, (bearing in mind not all people reading the guidance and laws are familiar with inches) does the cartridge need to be less than .36?

That’s an example of interpretation.

Your original response was curt, Unhelpful and condescending…if you have nothing better to do I suggest you find another thread to demonstrate your superiority on.

It is strange how some people are keen to espouse their own opinions on SD, yet will tell you not to seek the opinion of others, isn’t it?
That’s life in the round, I suppose… most on SD are hugely helpful, friendly, sprinkled with a bit of harmless banter. Others are just rude.

 

[Heym SR20]

Ok, just to play devils advocate, (bearing in mind not all people reading the guidance and laws are familiar with inches) does the cartridge need to be less than .36?

That’s an example of interpretation.

Your original response was curt, Unhelpful and condescending…if you have nothing better to do I suggest you find another thread to demonstrate your superiority on.

No, the statement says a “cartridge that contains five or more shot, none of which exceeds .36 inch”

The “none” refers to the shot not the cartridge. It is how language works.

Playing devils advocate, with your question of “does the cartridge need to be less than .36 inch,” if this were the case all shotgun cartridges would require a Section 1 FAC.

 

[DesG]

It makes perfect sense. A 12 bore with 5 pellets of LG is fine. A 20 bore with 4 pellets of LG is far more dangerous and therefor Sect 1. Who dreams up these laws!

 

[nun_hunter]

It makes perfect sense. A 12 bore with 5 pellets of LG is fine. A 20 bore with 4 pellets of LG is far more dangerous and therefor Sect 1. Who dreams up these laws!

You've got to draw a line somewhere and the legislation isn't there to just cover lead balls. A sabot or dart load would fall into that category too. The size and limit is probably drawn from some arbitrary factory available shotgun load at the time or writing or because it prevents use of shotguns for something else that at the time was unwanted.

As to your example of the 20 bore, just stick the 4 pellets not exceeding .36" and then drop in at least one smaller pellet to make it up to 5 or more in total.


Just like the .240 minimum calibre and ft/lbs rating for deer. No science behind it but it is what it is.

 

[Smellydog]

You can buy legally lg cartridges on a shotgun cert, have done many times.

 

[Smellydog]

If you think this is difficult try shooting a single ball from a muzzleloader smoothbore entered as a shotgun on a licence!
All legislation regarding shotgun cartridges requiring special licensing are described as loaded ammunition.
As a muzzleloader does not use ammunition they are exempt. Or are they?
Thats when the real arguments start!
I had the very same argument with my licencing department and they had no arguments back but pulled rank on me with threats of revoke.
FUBAR.

 

[DesG]

If you think this is difficult try shooting a single ball from a muzzleloader smoothbore entered as a shotgun on a licence!
All legislation regarding shotgun cartridges requiring special licensing are described as loaded ammunition.
As a muzzleloader does not use ammunition they are exempt. Or are they?
Thats when the real arguments start!
I had the very same argument with my licencing department and they had no arguments back but pulled rank on me with threats of revoke.
FUBAR.

Opinions differ. Unfortunately the opinions that differ are not just with different regions but also within the same FLD. That situation can not be right!

 

[Smellydog]

Opinions differ. Unfortunately the opinions that differ are not just with different regions but also within the same FLD. That situation can not be right!

Its quite simple really.
The people who wrote the law for section two shotguns completely forgot there are muzzloader shotguns. ( Or did they!).
In the description of a section two shotguns there is no restriction of ammunition type or restriction of what can be discharged from them until you get a description of a restriction on ammunition for shotguns.
A muzzleloader therefore is exempt from any restrictions as long as it meets the description of a shotgun under uk law.

What is counter argued is that the spirit of the law remains the same for muzzleloaders but I argu that actually the law makers were probably avid keen muzzleloader shotgun users and wanted the loophole to exist!

 

[DesG]

This is one situation where we don't have a problem here. We shoot muskets and cannon with solid ball quite happily and with the historical blessing of the firearms dept.
However, we don't ask the question to the latest batch of newbies in the office as they would have to make a decision and I can guess what it would be in the risk averse society we now exist in.

 

[Smellydog]

This is one situation where we don't have a problem here. We shoot muskets and cannon with solid ball quite happily and with the historical blessing of the firearms dept.
However, we don't ask the question to the latest batch of newbies in the office as they would have to make a decision and I can guess what it would be in the risk averse society we now exist in.

Absolutely, never ask them anything, it will always be " no"!
I didn't ask by the way, I was snitched on by A,N, Other.

 

[Delivery]

So please suggest how anyone interpret this differently.

Interesting point that (by reading the thread most people don't seems to have considered (except nun_hunter )) is that there's nothing that says all the shot must be the same size
so you could have (as an example) 3x .36 shot and 2x #7 shot (or more) - so I would say from these - most people assume to use the same shot

A 12 bore with 5 pellets of LG is fine. A 20 bore with 4 pellets of LG

so I'd say getting other people's thoughts can be useful - sometimes its a waste of time - you just need to be discerning what you believe)

 

[cohannon]

Very good observation; so where does the very effective US 'Ball and Buck' loading fall into this discussion?

 

[enfieldspares]

...as long as there are five or more of them in the cartridge.

Yes. So oddly a 12 bore with nine .362 balls is s2. But a .410" with just only three .36" balls is s1.

 

[DesG]

This thread is going round in circles!

 

[timbrayford]

I put mine in a locked cupboard…as you say, no need to but I do anyway.

I had some ordinary shotgun ammunition locked in a spare gun cabinet in a locked outbuilding, well beyond what the law requires.

I got burgled, the lock on the shed was forced, the cabinet jemmied off the wall and it was stolen along with around £ 2000 worth of power tools. Two career offenders were caught, one was let off with charges dropped, the other plead guilty to handling stolen goods and sent on a "thinking course".

My point is however, if the police, CPS and judiciary can't be bothered, why should we?

 

[gixer1]

I had some ordinary shotgun ammunition locked in a spare gun cabinet in a locked outbuilding, well beyond what the law requires.

I got burgled, the lock on the shed was forced, the cabinet jemmied off the wall and it was stolen along with around £ 2000 worth of power tools. Two career offenders were caught, one was let off with charges dropped, the other plead guilty to handling stolen goods and sent on a "thinking course".

My point is however, if the police, CPS and judiciary can't be bothered, why should we?

I guess the reason I do it is to make it harder to access if someone were to gain access to the shotguns it goes with - to prevent the ((however unlikely) event it could be used on me or my family if anyone did ever break in.

 

[sich1]

got me wondering if i still had some of these shells, found em...they must be 20years+ old.