Unable to respond to farmers request for pest control
- Thread starter richard griffith
- Start date
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
A summary table for Wales, which includes carrion crow, and links to each of the general licences in Wales, is in link below.
Wales
All the latest news and advice concerning general licences, in Wales, and how they affect you.
basc.org.uk
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
That depends on what species, purpose, time of year and if the site is on or near some protected sites - and if any of that is not covered by the general licences currently valid then you would apply for an individual licence. That principle is the same for bird pest control across the UK. But each country has its own set of rules - which you can read from the links above.
Yes but please have a read in the case outline above by the OP Conor
He says he then spoke to BASC and was told he needed a licence
Surely he can shoot carrions / jacks to prevent the spread of disease in this case
I thought the Welsh GL001/2 prohibited the shooting of rooks under the old provisions, and that they could only be shot under GL004 to protect red listed birds?You could have shot the jackdaws for crop protection under GL 001, and if the crops were being grown for livestock feed (which of course they were) you could have shot the carrion crows as well.
What an absolute messConor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
It's up to the OP to decide what he can and cannot do, based on his circumstances, based on the advice he has had, and his own judgement, and from reading the general licences. That's not me dodging answering a question - there are such complexities these days with general licences that it's really for advice over the phone rather than a kind of SD post match analysis as seems to be happening here and which I have been dragged into (!), and the OP has had advice from BASC and I am happy to follow up with @richard griffith if he wishes.
Dragged into ? Are you not here to give advice then ?
I have no issue if you are not - believe me
You can tell us that we all kill partridge chicks with spent lead with 100 percent conviction (!) but you cant tell us that you believe the OP can shoot crows
Come on
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
I think @Conor O'Gorman has given good and balanced response on an open public forum.
The open general licences issued by each devolved government are all very different, with different conditions on individual circumstances. What is correct for one, may be very different for another.
Fundamentally if you shoot something and are outside the conditions of the open general licence conditions you are in breech of the law and open yourself to prosecution.
As regards firearms and shotgun certificates are concerned, if there is just a suspicion that you do not abide by the law then you may no longer deemed to be a fit and proper person and you risk your certificates being revoked.
To get the laws changed requires a combined effort of farming, shooting and conservation organisations demonstrating the error of those who make up the conditions of these licenses.
Just advocating that you just go out and shoot the dam things is just giving ammunition to the anti’s.
It says it in black and white
You can shoot crows until the 1 st August to protect other wild birds (not looked - but maybe need to be red or amber listed)
It says you can shoot them at any time to prevent the spread of disease to livestock or livestock food stuffs
Im sure WE make all these things far more complicated than they need to be
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Frankly the OP, having reviewed the licence and applied it to his particular circumstances has decided that he cannot shoot the corvids on that particular farm.
Fundamentally the person who shoots the crows needs to be able to justify his actions.
It is not a question of making it difficult, it is called following the law.
As i say read the licence
Jon P
Well-Known Member
Won’t need chimneys when wood burners are banned.I wonder if the minister had jacks in their chimney? They don't seem to concerned about them....
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
I am certainly not on here to be on the receiving end of cynical snide comments like that. Nor do I wish to get into a public spat with you on SD. However, let's be clear. You tagged me in this thread a half hour before the England game asserting that "Thats a stupid response from BASC..." knowing me full well enough that this would drag me into this thread. More fool me for engaging in good faith the same evening to that. Next time you tag me with comments like that don't expect a quick or indeed any response. And you will not brow beat me into giving unwise advice on half baked speculative scenarios just so you can score points with others on SD with your opinion on Welsh general licences. That said, I respect and appreciate what you are doing on your patch for shooting and conservation and your political engagement and encouragement of others on this forum, but on this occasion I think you are out of order in my book, hence this feedback.
Grow up Conor
You are either here to help people with advice or not
I think you are OK but your dummy soon comes out the moment you are challenged
The end
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
I don't know what on earth has got into you but I hope in time that you reflect on your comments and in due course have the good grace to offer an apology.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
In the event of quarry species reviews taking place anywhere in the UK perhaps we should push to get species such as woodpigeon, corvids etc on the quarry list in that country so that these species have an open and close season. During the open season there are then no ifs and buts about it for individuals. Then, during the close season general licences or individual licences would be options available. Historical context copy and pasted from an article earlier this year:
Back in the day the law on pest bird control was relatively straightforward and universal across the land. There was a pest birds list and everyone knew what could be shot and trapped all year round, including the various crows, gulls and pigeons. However, in the 1990s EU wildlife law began to change and stipulated set protection periods for breeding and/or migration for every species of “huntable bird”, included those considered to be pests in the UK.
A compromise was reached for the UK via a novel approach called the general licence, introduced in 1992, as a light-touch legal exemption from the EU bird protection rules. BASC played a leading role in its introduction. The principle was simple — to permit people to continue to carry out necessary control of certain species of birds with no added burdens such as needing to apply for a licence. What we had was a list of the controllable species and the legally permitted methods, all on a single page.
However, over the years wildlife law gradually became devolved, with separate general licence systems in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. The scope of these licences was also widened to make it legal to carry out a wide range of activities affecting a wide range of species of birds, mammals and amphibians. Such activities include possession, sales, exhibitions, rehabilitation and research. Most recently general licences have been introduced in England for the release of pheasants and red-legged partridges.
What were once simple rules for bird pest control were meddled with by lawyers in the various conservation agencies, creating a legal quagmire of multiple general licences dozens of pages long, with various items of small print and caveats that in recent years have been beset by legal challenges.