What Accuracy Do You Require from Your Deer Hunting Rifle?

[HonestJohn]

I reload for all my rifles,and I want a minimum of .250 moa at 100 yards,or better. Does that mean I'll shoot more than a rifle that shoots an inch at 100 yards,probably not. But,when you're faced with a really difficult shot at extended range,those small groups come into their own. From my own point of view,if my rifle,bullet and scope will shoot .250 moa or less,and it goes pear shaped,it's down to the nut behind the butt!

Do you realise how small a group that is? Did you manage it once during reloading and call it finished? Or consistently repeatable with 10 round groups off bags? According to many one here including @Mungo , could easily be random luck and actual group size for the rifle and load far far bigger. For a hunting rifle, it’s a very small group size indeed - something BR shooters pay thousands to try and replicate once or twice in their lifetimes - attacked is .264

 

[ASl sniper.177]

Do you realise how small a group that is? Did you manage it once during reloading and call it finished? Or consistently repeatable with 10 round groups off bags? According to many one here including @Mungo , could easily be random luck and actual group size for the rifle and load far far bigger. For a hunting rifle, it’s a very small group size indeed - something BR shooters pay thousands to try and replicate once or twice in their lifetimes - attacked is .264

I should clarify that I only shoot 3 shot groups as I'm not a target or long range competition shooter. I work up a really accurate for shooting deer,foxes and other vermin. The 3 shot groups I get are repeatable over different days of testing.
The rifles have been full custom along with proper attention to details when working up a load. Lapua brass that has been fully prepped I.e neck turned,annealed,flash hole and primer pockets sorted etc. Plus,finding the best seating depth and neck tension. I know someone will say you need 5 shot groups to really see what a load will do,but bearing in mind I rarely shoot more than 3 shots in rapid succession when out after deer or foxes,it works for me.
The reason I take the time to get a really accurate load in .250 range ìs,if the rifle,scope and bullet combination is spot on,it gives me confidence when taking difficult shots. The only thing I have to worry about then is,the nut behind the butt,me!!

 

[rem284]

I think if someone can only achieve 4moa groups under field conditions then there is something wrong. They need to practice under field conditions until they improve. A lot of people are saying there is a vast difference between shooting targets and shooting deer. I disagree, the lead up to the shot might be different and the consequences if it goes wrong are more of an issue but the technique of the shot should be as near as possible the same. Platform, breathing, trigger control and follow through.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Keeping it simple and forget the maths just whack it...To have all that going on above is just asking for trouble.
TBH there are no field condition ever the same as the previous one has past just like the tide the next one is different

Spot on

 

[Mungo]

Do you realise how small a group that is? Did you manage it once during reloading and call it finished? Or consistently repeatable with 10 round groups off bags? According to many one here including @Mungo , could easily be random luck and actual group size for the rifle and load far far bigger. For a hunting rifle, it’s a very small group size indeed - something BR shooters pay thousands to try and replicate once or twice in their lifetimes - attacked is .264

I can bust out the simulations again!

 

[ejg]

I don't mind my 30-30 to be around 1.5" at 100yds as it is used for close range only. All other rifles I prefer at 1/2" or below. All rifles follow the same laws of physics and there is a reason why some rifles do not shoot as well as others or are much more difficult to get to shoot well. The lighter a rifle the more recoil movement before the bullet leaves the barrel and the more chance of launch angle change. Light rifles must be put together with that in mind. Most shooting training has an element of compensating for a rifle that does not recoil right... for example "hold that forend".
Accurate rifles are always a bonus, no matter if offhand or off the bipod/rucksack in the hills. Rifles that are easy to shoot are even more important for hunting.
edi

 

[big ears]

1 moa is good enough if you follow best practice and chest shoot.

 

[JH83]

An inch at 100 is my default maximum group size.

My 6.5 will do a lot better than that, especially with 120g Sierra, standard clover leafs or one hole groups. It’s heavy barrel and bedded into a McMillan, with a high mag scope. This is what I’d take if I felt a long, or tricky shot was on the cards. It’s a lump though.

My 308 is less accurate but within the inch, just. It’s a lighter barrel, I know there’s pitting in the bore, but its maximum use is really 200 yards, smidge more on a red. It’s a lot lighter and quicker to get on target than my 6.5 so more of a woodland setup, lower mag scope etc. Horses for courses.

 

[Jagare]

Here`s a short little video of a boy stag, he`s been on here before but he`s back again simply to ask the question " can you, off the shoulder put a kill shot into the zone with a deer legal calibre (.270 up) at say a 100 yards?"

Mind you magnums do help if you are prone to a bit of wandering but still there is a huge window of zone here.

​

A big lad like that, I'd shoot that off hand at 100mtrs if no rest was available.
The running moose range is 80 mtrs and with the stationary shot I can quite consistently hit the inner five ring that I think is 15cm.

 

[ASl sniper.177]

Pick the bones out of these groups shot with a bog standard Bergara B14 Hunter in 6.5 Creedmoor,apart from a trigger upgrade to a Triggertech unit. Bullets used were 120 grain Eld-m Factory Match loads. The orange bull group was to check zero after one of my dog's knocked my rifle over. Range,60 yards,3 shot group. The other is the same rifle and bullet combination at 100 yards,on a different day.

 

[VSS]

A lot of people are saying there is a vast difference between shooting targets and shooting deer. I disagree, the lead up to the shot might be different and the consequences if it goes wrong are more of an issue but the technique of the shot should be as near as possible the same. Platform, breathing, trigger control and follow through.

As I'm clearly not the only one who struggles with shooting targets, but is OK when it comes to shooting deer, if you can give any tips to improve that would be much appreciated.
I certainly find that there's a vast difference, but I guess it's largely psychological.

For example:

When shooting targets/zeroing I'm aware of my breathing, and control it as I've been advised. I'm aware of any shaking that might result in wobble in the rifle, so I ensure I've got a stable platform and get the wobble under control. I'm conscious of my trigger control, first take up of pressure, break point, follow through, etc. I'm aware of the recoil, so make sure I'm holding the rifle properly to absorb it, and so on. And I get appalling results.

In contrast, when shooting deer, I'm not aware of my breathing at all. Don't even think about it, to be honest! I don't shake, and I don't see any "wobble" in the rifle. I'm not conscious of squeezing the trigger, or observing any follow through, and I don't feel any recoil. Jeez, I don't even hear the bang, and that's with an unmoderated .270!
It literally feels like I'm stood at one end of a tunnel and the deer is stood at the other, and the rest of the world ceases to be. And they consistently drop down dead, even at quite respectable ranges. And I don't feel any stress or pressure. Just total calm.

Any advice or tips gratefully received!

 

[ASl sniper.177]

As I'm clearly not the only one who struggles with shooting targets, but is OK when it comes to shooting deer, if you can give any tips to improve that would be much appreciated.
I certainly find that there's a vast difference, but I guess it's largely psychological.

For example:

When shooting targets I'm aware of my breathing, and control it as I've been advised. I'm aware of any shaking that might result in wobble in the rifle, so I ensure I've got a stable platform an,,,,,d get the wobble under control. I'm conscious of my trigger control, first take up of pressure, break point, follow through, etc. I'm aware of the recoil, so make sure I'm holding the rifle properly to absorb it, and so on. And I get appalling results.

In contrast, when shooting deer, I'm not aware of my breathing at all. Don't even think about it, to be honest! I don't shake, and I don't see any "wobble" in the rifle. I'm not conscious of squeezing the trigger, or observing any follow through, and I don't feel any recoil. Jeez, I don't even hear the bang, and that's with an unmoderated .270!
It literally feels like I'm stood at one end of a tunnel and the deer is stood at the other, and the rest of the world ceases to be. And they consistently drop down dead, even at quite respectable ranges.

Any advice or tips gratefully received!

VSS,you have hit the nail on the head when it comes to shooting small groups on paper at 100 yards or metres ,compared to shooting a deer or fox at further ranges. My aim point when shooting groups at 100 yards varies between .250 moa and .500 moa depending on what scope I'm using. The thing is,I notice my breathing and trigger release way more when shooting groups on paper,than I ever do shooting live quarry. Why,because you're shooting at a really small aim point than you're used to. The more you practise shooting at a small target,the better you will be out in the field.

 

[VSS]

VSS,you have hit the nail on the head when it comes to shooting small groups on paper at 100 yards or metres ,compared to shooting a deer or fox at further ranges. My aim point when shooting groups at 100 yards varies between .250 moa and .500 moa depending on what scope I'm using. The thing is,I notice my breathing and trigger release way more when shooting groups on paper,than I ever do shooting live quarry. Why,because you're shooting at a really small aim point than you're used to. The more you practise shooting at a small target,the better you will be out in the field.

Sure, but the aim point when I'm head shooting deer is pretty tiny too, and I have no problem with that
I just find shooting targets so stressful, and get the shakes and erratic breathing, thumping heart rate, etc, and can't fathom out why. That's how other people often feel when shooting deer, despite being great shots on paper!
Perhaps I'm just odd.

 

[ASl sniper.177]

Sure, but the aim point when I'm head shooting deer is pretty tiny too, and I have no problem with that
I just find shooting targets so stressful, and get the shakes and erratic breathing, thumping heart rate, etc, and can't fathom out why. That's how other people often feel when shooting deer, despite being great shots on paper!
Perhaps I'm just odd.

You're not odd! If you put a deer head out at 100 yards,you would probably be chilled because it's what you are used to. But,when shooting at an inch or less bull at 100 yards,it looks really small. I had the same problem when trying to shoot a 4 pint milk bottle at 1000 yards. I had to forget it was a thousand yards away,and just concentrate on my hold,breathing and trigger control. The Same applies to any range.

 

[Gunner971]

This may seem to be a bit of a flippant reply, but I only need it to drop whatever I’m aiming at. We zero to prove to ourselves that the load is grouping correctly. The vitals of a deer are roughly the same size as whole Rabbit so if you can hit that I would be satisfied. Sometimes we try to take things to the nth degree for no practical reason.

 

[rem284]

As I'm clearly not the only one who struggles with shooting targets, but is OK when it comes to shooting deer, if you can give any tips to improve that would be much appreciated.
I certainly find that there's a vast difference, but I guess it's largely psychological.

For example:

When shooting targets/zeroing I'm aware of my breathing, and control it as I've been advised. I'm aware of any shaking that might result in wobble in the rifle, so I ensure I've got a stable platform and get the wobble under control. I'm conscious of my trigger control, first take up of pressure, break point, follow through, etc. I'm aware of the recoil, so make sure I'm holding the rifle properly to absorb it, and so on. And I get appalling results.

In contrast, when shooting deer, I'm not aware of my breathing at all. Don't even think about it, to be honest! I don't shake, and I don't see any "wobble" in the rifle. I'm not conscious of squeezing the trigger, or observing any follow through, and I don't feel any recoil. Jeez, I don't even hear the bang, and that's with an unmoderated .270!
It literally feels like I'm stood at one end of a tunnel and the deer is stood at the other, and the rest of the world ceases to be. And they consistently drop down dead, even at quite respectable ranges. And I don't feel any stress or pressure. Just total calm.

Any advice or tips gratefully received!

Follow the process at the target as you do for deer then. I have watched some people shoot, and I think, mmm! I bet those shots are all over the place. One guy I watched flinched like Billy oh when shooting a 300m target for the first time ever. Group size was 1.5 inches. Frame of mind is another big part. Competence and confidence go hand in hand

 

[ASl sniper.177]

Follow the process at the target as you do for deer then. I have watched some people shoot, and I think, mmm! I bet those shots are all over the place. One guy I watched flinched like Billy oh when shooting a 300m target for the first time ever. Group size was 1.5 inches. Frame of mind is another big part. Competence and confidence go hand

 

[VSS]

You're not odd!

Nobody has ever said that to me before

 

[ASl sniper.177]

What's not been mentioned in any of the replies relating to rifle accuracy or group size is,you can give a rifle and bullet combination that's capable of shooting .250 moa or less too every rifle shooter,and probably 80% of those wouldn't be able to get anywhere near what that combination is capable of!

 

[mudman]

Beer mat for Roe and smaller species.