A good article on big game rifles
- Thread starter Heym SR20
- Start date
Brighty3006
Well-Known Member
Excellent. Thanks
Definitely an excellent article. Thanks for posting. I would also suggest this as worthy of reading as well. It makes a lot of sense with regards shooting dangerous game.
www.africahunting.com
Is Bigger Always Better?
I thought this group may enjoy this article I wrote in the latest African Gazette. A link to that particular issue (of which Divan Labuschagne, one of our great PHs, also took the cover picture): Let me know your thoughts....
www.africahunting.com
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
Funny that.Is Bigger Always Better?
I thought this group may enjoy this article I wrote in the latest African Gazette. A link to that particular issue (of which Divan Labuschagne, one of our great PHs, also took the cover picture): Let me know your thoughts....
I started out with the .416, then .375 ... I am now looking at .275.
Just caught up in the romance of it all really.
Tested this big boy last week
Ruger Mk1 M77 in 458 Win Mag with 500gr of Round Nose “sit down”
Remarkably tame to shoot considering
Pushing 500gr at 2000fps I think we can stoke them up to 2150fps
I need to shoot all the big ones just to say I have!!
The 458wm is widely regarded as the little brother to the 458Lott
But at about 2mm extra case length and next to no increase in velocity I am not sure it deserves the big brother moniker
Ruger Mk1 M77 in 458 Win Mag with 500gr of Round Nose “sit down”
Remarkably tame to shoot considering
Pushing 500gr at 2000fps I think we can stoke them up to 2150fps
I need to shoot all the big ones just to say I have!!
The 458wm is widely regarded as the little brother to the 458Lott
But at about 2mm extra case length and next to no increase in velocity I am not sure it deserves the big brother moniker
Attachments
Having shot the 458 Win Mag and the .458 Lott a fair bit, there is a definite difference in recoil going to the Lott as the 500g bullet is travelling at 2300fps instead of 2050 - 2150fps. I’m pretty sure the Win mag is a 2.5 inch case whilst the Lott is a 2.8 inch case. Don’t get me wrong the 458 Win Mag is enough to get your attention but the Lott is still a step up
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
The Lott just allows the 458 Win to perform as it should. With the older powders in the 1960’s and African heat, powders would decay and often the 458 win mag was more like 1900 fps rather the 2,200 fps that a big game rifle really needs to be.
The Lott gives a bit more capacity to allow the 458 to perform like 450 and 470 nitros.
Downside of the lott is that it needs the magnum length action. 458 win mag can go in a 30-06 or 300 win mag action. Lott needs the 375 H&H, so pretty much any of the Brno’s in 458 win can re chambered easily to the lott. And the beauty of the lott is you can still use 458 win ammo perfectly well.
Just checked some figures for recoil as Im in a nerdy mood.... The .458 Win Mag weighing a nominal 10lbs inc scope gives 59ft-lbs of recoil at 19.46fps with a 500 grain bullet at 2150fps the 10lb .458 Lott gives 70.57ft-lbs of recoil at 21.2fps with a 500 grain bullet at 2300fps. Definitely more oomph, just as Jack Lott intended! Personally I prefer the 450 grain Cutting Edge solid bullet at 2350fps for 58 ft-lbs recoil energy in the Lott as its accuracy that counts, even with very large animals. Havent tried this bullet in the Win Mag yet but I will
By way of comparison a "hard kicking" .270 with heavy 150 grain bullets at max pressure yields a whopping 14 ft-lbs of energy at 9 fps.
By way of comparison a "hard kicking" .270 with heavy 150 grain bullets at max pressure yields a whopping 14 ft-lbs of energy at 9 fps.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
I have shot a few big game rifles. They do generally just give a big shove.
Most uncomfortable rifles i have ever shot is a light plastic stocked 300 Win Mag Blazer R93 - just nasty and snappy recoil, the other was a 308 Mannlicher Stutzen with a short and appalling shaped stock. It just upwards into your face giving you a belt with its scope for added effect.
Most uncomfortable rifles i have ever shot is a light plastic stocked 300 Win Mag Blazer R93 - just nasty and snappy recoil, the other was a 308 Mannlicher Stutzen with a short and appalling shaped stock. It just upwards into your face giving you a belt with its scope for added effect.
When I went for my .416 it was on the advice that the .416 hits a lot harder than the .375. It's true - it hits me much harder too!Funny that.
I started out with the .416, then .375 ... I am now looking at .275.
Just caught up in the romance of it all really.
View attachment 381530
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
The .416 (and the .375) are fairly horrible to 'plink' with.
The .416 is zeroed, and put away into hibernation.
The .375 is zeroed, periodically taken out, mounted (no sniggering), cleaned and put back into 'deep storage'.
Get them out to Africa (or on the Sika Stags in the rut), and I do not feel a thing.
Funny thing what a shot of adrenaline can do for a man's pain threshold...
Well it's funny you should say that. I shot my old Brno .375 quite extensively and never really reached a point where I thought "right, that's enough of that for one day". Sure, I didn't go out and send 100 rounds down the range, but a box or two of ammo was no issue at all.
Fast forward a decade and the CZ .416 arrived. I eagerly took it to the range with a box of Hornady 400gr DGX and let rip. To be completely honest I was thinking "right, that's enough of that for one day" immediately after the first round was fired! I composed myself and sent a few more for good measure, but a fun day it absolutely was not!
They say everyone has a point where they cross the line between tolerable and unbearable. In my experience, that line can be moved but it takes a lot of work and I think unbearable only becomes a very unpleasant version of tolerable. The trick seems to be to mix it up a bit - go to the range and shoot a few rounds, then go back to the smaller cartridges for a bit before going back to send another mag full of big stuff once all senses have returned to normal. That really does help, but it doesn't make the experience a good one!
I know what you mean about adrenaline though. Many shots I've taken on deer over the years I've had a complete mind blank regarding where I aimed. I suppose my mind was on other things at that point? I've raised the rifle, obviously have aimed and pulled the trigger, but that part is completely subconscious. It's like I know what to do so that part isn't relevant enough to register. Faced with a situation like that buff in the picture, who knows where my brain will be but I'm sure recoil does become completely insignificant!
Can handle my 375 , 8B easy but a 16g single barrel I used to own christ that felt like someone was hitting you with a sledge hammer , first time I fired it I pulled the forend off , that had to go !
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
The 458 Wm is widely regarded as the little brother to the 458Lott but at about 2mm extra case length and next to no increase in velocity.
As you say.
I was just reading a Handloader article ref these two cartridges and the comment was that with the heat where these are used sometimes the WM did not reach the 100 yd target due to powder expansion causing the powder to compress into a hard to ignite lump hence the reason for the extended case .458 Lott. According to this same article he left this world via a selfie .357 magnum, but wiki states In 1992, Lott suffered failure in both kidneys due in part to his alcoholism and diabetes. He began to lose his sight and needed dialysis twice a week. He used a .455 Webley revolver to take his own life with a shot to his head.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Alcohol, in particular Johnny Walker red label is a curse for far far too many. It takes over the lives of many many good people and they just end up dribbling cantankerous reflections of their former selves.
NewForester
Well-Known Member
Definitely an excellent article. Thanks for posting. I would also suggest this as worthy of reading as well. It makes a lot of sense with regards shooting dangerous game.
Is Bigger Always Better?
I thought this group may enjoy this article I wrote in the latest African Gazette. A link to that particular issue (of which Divan Labuschagne, one of our great PHs, also took the cover picture): Let me know your thoughts....
Enjoyed both articles but enjoyed the second more. There is so much discussion about calibres but in my mind Placement and Bullet Type are more important.
The second article indicates that the 9.3 and .375 were scoped leading to better placement. He also touches on the bullet design and manufacturers but I understand that there has been something of a revolution in these dangerous game bullets.
(There was a photo of a hunter with buffalo and his Ruger No 1 single shot. I like those rifles but not sure I would one for dangerous game.)
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
I had an alcoholic partner back in the mid-late 70s we lived together but she managed to hide it from me for 3+ years, it caused me to leave her in the end after trying for over a year to get her off the sherry. I felt guilty for many years afterwards.
The current bullets available for dangerous game are head and shoulders better than the cup and core bullets from last century. In soft nosed format you have the excellent Swift AFrame, the Trophy bonded bearclaw, the Cutting Edge Safari Raptor, the North Fork, Peregrine and the Barnes TSX. Solid bullet design has come on leaps and bounds from the round nosed solids to the cup nosed and flat nosed solids like the Cutting Edge Safari solids that penetrate far deeper and straighter than round nosed bullets. One test compared a slightly heavier monolithic round nosed bullet with a slightly lighter flat nosed bullet fired at the same velocity and the flat nosed bullet penetrated one metre deeper than the round nose into wet newspaper!
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