FORGED FAC AND SHOTGUN CERTIFICATES

[bottletopbill]

Hi Please be aware Kent police have been on to my shooting club concerning forged shotgun/firearm certificates.

So please check all the documents carefully .

Bill

 

[Acerforestry]

Can I ask which club, I'm also in Kent

 

[Moose67]

Haven't heard anything directly but found this on the National Crime Agency website ...

This year, there has been an increasing amount of fraudulent copies of firearm documents being used in an attempt to unlawfully acquire legally held firearms. The National Crime Agency (NCA) need the help of firearms trade and certificate holders to prevent legal firearms being unknowingly transferred into unlawful possession and to protect the licensed firearms community from people who intend to defraud them.

https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov...eats/firearms/know-your-uk-firearms-documents

 

[bottletopbill]

Acerforestry

I belong to st Nicholas pistol and rifle club in Chislehurst Kent just of the A20

 

[Jh1986]

Landowners too. My permission landowner mentioned that he'd got another stalker he had given permission to ages ago. The landowner said the guy apparently turned up, shot 1 buck and hasn't been heard from again and also had no idea what he was doing once that buck was on the deck.

When I got permission, the police asked about other people using the land. He gave the guys details and the landowner told me that the police said they could find no record of him.

Not heard any more so no idea what end result was.

 

[bottletopbill]

So that raises more problems how many land owners really check any details of the shooter.
I always carry copies of my cert's and permission slips and insurance also my training in a A4plastic folder.
You never know

 

[SunnyDays]

Check them with a UV torch - shows the watermarks perfectly.

 

[Jh1986]

Check them with a UV torch - shows the watermarks perfectly.

Today I learnt they have UV watermarks

 

[bottletopbill]

shows we are all still on a learning curve

 

[Mike L]

So that raises more problems how many land owners really check any details of the shooter.
I always carry copies of my cert's and permission slips and insurance also my training in a A4plastic folder.
You never know

On your person?

 

[markj1]

That's one reason I prefer to buy and sell firearms via an RFD, except for when dealing with members on my club who I know personally.

 

[bottletopbill]

We all have to be so careful in so many way's

 

[Basil H]

Surely this can not be very common, as the dodgy purchaser would show up as soon as the notice of transfer reached the police. Do these alleged forged documents include a real or a fictitious address ? Hmm.

 

[twoseventy]

Surely this can not be very common, as the dodgy purchaser would show up as soon as the notice of transfer reached the police. Do these alleged forged documents include a real or a fictitious address ? Hmm.

Depends if it is the copy of a legitimate certificate with photo amended, which looks easier to do now as its no longer an "original" photo booth picture, rather a grainy version of the digital photo.

 

[billgatese30]

Not sure about other areas, but here are my FAC amd SGC issued by Durham. Both floresce under UV on one side on the paper (but not on the opposite side).

 

[Acerforestry]

I guess given how difficult it must be to counterfeit bank notes for example, now and the fact that it still occurs anyway, this had to become a potential issue at some point. I'll be more aware now, for sure

 

[markj1]

In the olden days, when you could still purchase a firearm by post, scammers advertised cheap handguns in gun magazines, and when you sent them your FAC in the post together with a cheque, the scammers would discard the cheque then use your FAC to purchase guns by post from a genuine seller... and in those days it was pistols and revolvers that were coveted by the thieves. It amazed me at the time that RFDs did not insist on shipping the firearm only to the registered address on the FAC, which might have stopped this scam. Anyways, you can no longer buy a firearm by post, and in fact you can no longer buy a revolver or a pistol (unless black powder or LBP, obviously). Sad times....

 

[markj1]

I guess given how difficult it must be to counterfeit bank notes for example, now and the fact that it still occurs anyway, this had to become a potential issue at some point. I'll be more aware now, for sure

I am surprised that there isn't a national computer system that links RFDs to a central police firearm register, so that they can verify the customer's details. In fact, the paper FAC can be replaced with a plastic card displaying a unique code or number. Something similar to how every MOT testing station is linked by computer to the DVSA database. I guess the main issue is cost?

 

[bottletopbill]

But what about private sellers .
I pretty sure police forces computers do not talk to each other.

With DSC1/2 and large game and meat cert's they have a number could that not be used if ever needed.
Only a thought

 

[ContinShots]

I am surprised that there isn't a national computer system that links RFDs to a central police firearm register, so that they can verify the customer's details. In fact, the paper FAC can be replaced with a plastic card displaying a unique code or number. Something similar to how every MOT testing station is linked by computer to the DVSA database. I guess the main issue is cost?

That would be a disaster from a data protection point of view. As soon as you make the PNC or even just firearms owners details open to outside access, it's much easier for hackers to access it too. There's no way I want RFDs and their shonky old shop PC accessing a database with my name, address and firearms details!