14-17 year olds and air rifles.

[gixer1]

I had a discussion with an FEO who is telling me a 15 year old must be under supervision at all times when using an air rifle - my understanding is that as long as the 15 year old is on private property - they can be unsupervised.

Can anyone confirm for Scotland as I cannot find anything other than the BASC info which obviously isn’t a legal document.

 

[Trickyd66]

My understanding is if they have their own AWC supervision is not required.

 

[Heym SR20]

Young people

Important information on the use of airguns, rifles and shotguns by children and young people, including borrowing guns.

basc.org.uk

 

[SunnyDays]

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/fi/af/firearms-licensing/air-weapons/

This is from the Met Police website, which should be acceptable as a reliable source.

 

[20-250]

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/fi/af/firearms-licensing/air-weapons/

This is from the Met Police website, which should be acceptable as a reliable source.

The Met don't cover Scotland!

 

[SunnyDays]

Very good point!

Air Weapons

Air Weapons

www.scotland.police.uk

 

[gixer1]

Very good point!

Air Weapons

Air Weapons

www.scotland.police.uk

I had a look through this and it doesn’t appear to mention it - this is for usage but it mentions sale, gifting etc.

 

[Trickyd66]

I had a look through this and it doesn’t appear to mention it - this is for usage but it mentions sale, gifting etc.

Look at the FAQ section. Although no definitive answer, all suggests that under 14 or no AWC , AWC holders supervision required (supervisor must be 21 or older) 14 to 17 with own AWC on land with permission, no supervision required.

 

[gixer1]

Look at the FAQ section. Although no definitive answer, all suggests that under 14 or no AWC , AWC holders supervision required (supervisor must be 21 or older) 14 to 17 with own AWC on land with permission, no supervision required.

I guess that’s the issue - no definitive answer!

 

[Trickyd66]

I guess that’s the issue - no definitive answer!

Yes, but what is the point of providing an AWC to someone under 18, if they then require an AWC holder over 21 to supervise them? Might as well not apply / pay out and use someone else's rifle.

 

[gixer1]

Yes, but what is the point of providing an AWC to someone under 18, if they then require an AWC holder over 21 to supervise them? Might as well not apply / pay out and use someone else's rifle.

I agree, but to be able to correct the FEO I need a definitive response….

I’d say section 7 (5) covers it as I’d suggest they can be un supervised but cannot own the air rifle.

 

[gixer1]

More questions, after discussing with the FEO, he confirmed that a 14-17 years old AWC holder can use the air rifle on private property without supervision, however, he has come back with comment - “as long as you are there to hand over the rifle and put it away after finishing”…..

I’m not sure this is correct?? Can the AWC holder not access the locked cupboard to access the rifle and put it away again??

I am waiting for a SGA person to call me back but I just want to make sure I am understanding the requirements.

Regards,
Gixer

 

[doric_prince]

I have a awc. If I recall correctly, there is something in the regulations that specifies keeping the air weapon secured so as not to allow access to those under 18. whether this requirement makes allowances for those conditions / individuals exempt under section 7 section, I don’t know, but I’m guessing this might be the requirement your feo is working off.

 

[chriswjx]

I have a awc. If I recall correctly, there is something in the regulations that specifies keeping the air weapon secured so as not to allow access to those under 18. whether this requirement makes allowances for those conditions / individuals exempt under section 7 section, I don’t know, but I’m guessing this might be the requirement your feo is working off.

My understanding from when I got my AWC is that you are to secure it to prevent access to anyone that does not have an AWC - under/over 18 was not relevant.

Specifically brought up in my phone call with the FEO at the time because I live with my fiancée (who's definitely over the age of 18), and we have no connections to people under the age of 18 (outside my work). Under no circumstances currently could I see ever having an under 18 round, and yet I was still told that to keep compliant, the AW would need to be locked to the fabric of the building and that a trigger lock would not have been sufficient...

With regards to Gixer's question, see schedule 1 of the air weapons act which covers exemptions to the AWC licensing requirements Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2015

I don't really think that's anything but definitive right? It is not an office to borrow/use/possess on private land, but you must be supervised, and if under the age of 14, the supervisor must be over 21.

I want to say I've actually shared this exact bit before when you asked the last time? I guessing you have me on ignore...

 

[doric_prince]

I agree, but to be able to correct the FEO I need a definitive response….

I’d say section 7 (5) covers it as I’d suggest they can be un supervised but cannot own the air rifle.

View attachment 392488

Section 7 (4), I agree with your point on cannot own. It might be the logic of your feo is; if you are the owner you are responsible for security / putting it back in the cabinet?

 

[doric_prince]

My understanding from when I got my AWC is that you are to secure it to prevent access to anyone that does not have an AWC - under/over 18 was not relevant.

Specifically brought up in my phone call with the FEO at the time because I live with my fiancée (who's definitely over the age of 18), and we have no connections to people under the age of 18 (outside my work). Under no circumstances currently could I see ever having an under 18 round, and yet I was still told that to keep compliant, the AW would need to be locked to the fabric of the building and that a trigger lock would not have been sufficient...

With regards to Gixer's question, see schedule 1 of the air weapons act which covers exemptions to the AWC licensing requirements Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2015

I don't really think that's anything but definitive right? It is not an office to borrow/use/possess on private land, but you must be supervised, and if under the age of 14, the supervisor must be over 21.

I want to say I've actually shared this exact bit before when you asked the last time? I guessing you have me on ignore...

View attachment 393152

Those conditions apply to those without an awc. 11 (1) without holding an air weapon certificate, if the conditions in sub-paragraph (2) are complied with.

I think the op was indicating the youngster may have, or will / has applied for, an awc, in which case I don’t think 11 (1) & (2) applies.

 

[chriswjx]

Those conditions apply to those without an awc. 11 (1) without holding an air weapon certificate, if the conditions in sub-paragraph (2) are complied with.

I think the op was indicating the youngster may have, or will / has applied for, an awc, in which case I don’t think 11 (1) & (2) applies.

Fair enough.

In that instance then, I suspect the FEO's requirement that the "owner" of the AW needs to bring it out and put it away (gixer) is then to satisfy the condition that an under-18 cannot "own" an AW - just use it unsupervised. Thinking along the lines of what's the difference between not owning and owning something if you have unrestricted access to that item.

 

[Apthorpe]

Christ, if you can't let a vetted person that age deal with an air rifle on their own, why the ***k do people want to give them votes and the power to elect someone with control of a nuclear button?

 

[JockStalk]

They’ll be fine unsupervised.

Just don’t let them say any hurty words online though - blue lights before you can blink.

 

[gixer1]

My understanding from when I got my AWC is that you are to secure it to prevent access to anyone that does not have an AWC - under/over 18 was not relevant.

Specifically brought up in my phone call with the FEO at the time because I live with my fiancée (who's definitely over the age of 18), and we have no connections to people under the age of 18 (outside my work). Under no circumstances currently could I see ever having an under 18 round, and yet I was still told that to keep compliant, the AW would need to be locked to the fabric of the building and that a trigger lock would not have been sufficient...

With regards to Gixer's question, see schedule 1 of the air weapons act which covers exemptions to the AWC licensing requirements Air Weapons and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2015

I don't really think that's anything but definitive right? It is not an office to borrow/use/possess on private land, but you must be supervised, and if under the age of 14, the supervisor must be over 21.

I want to say I've actually shared this exact bit before when you asked the last time? I guessing you have me on ignore...

View attachment 393152

No, not on ignore - but I would not say it’s definitive at all - I’ve got to th bottom of the use - that’s fine, no need for a 14-17 year old to be supervised if they have an AWC, but there is nothing that states they cannot have access to it as (like you said) they have an AWC.

Regards,
Gixer