UK vs US deer stalking attitudes

[billy_boyle_2010]

I’m well aware.

But that is the public perception and the historic truth of that fact is the reason.

Private land ownership is the main reason behind the difference in attitudes

Is it the public perception ? A few of the ill informed city and town types probably think pheasant shooting is just for the elites. But do they really think people who shoot rabbits and badger bait are all wearing top end tweed? Im not so sure.

I think a newer attitude is to think of all shooters are just evil and cruel. Which is the same attitude as before in a way- with anyone with money instantly being bad too.

Large amounts of public land probably would help. But not much IMO- we just aren't an outdoors people. Quite possibly in part because of the weather. There's plenty of public land for walking, climbing, coastal watersports etc- and our nations participation numbers are low here too.

A few chavs took interest in the outdoors during covid- and got blown out to sea on their inflatable paddleboards- or took 6 berth tents on dartmoor - chopping down green trees and trying to burn them before shitting on the floor and leaving when their phone batteries died.

But for the most part- we aren't anything like as active outdoors as the countries that have higher shooting levels- so I don't think that having public land is the answer either.

 

[KimE]

I’m well aware.

But that is the public perception and the historic truth of that fact is the reason.

Private land ownership is the main reason behind the difference in attitudes

Its also the revolution France had one but english people was held down by the noble men.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Its also the revolution France had one but english people was held down by the noble men.

The British upper classes didn't treat their working classes anything like as badly as the French did- and when they got wind of things- their political system adapted and changed.

France was in a poor state financially too- the working classes were in a bad mood.

The British are also a more orderly people. The French are a bunch of hooligans- the brits only let that side come out at football matches.

 

[nun_hunter]

We should all be grateful not many people in the UK shoot. If the UK population shot and hunted in similar percentages to many other countries - with our tiny landmass- we would all have to make do with 3 squirrels and 2 rabbits a year and a deer every 5 years.

Or we would have multiple people sharing permissions and the same number, if not more deer being shot, but each shooter taking deer home throughout the year to eat. Rather than now, where a handful of people shoot most of the deer and complain they don't get paid enough by the game dealer to do it.

In most other countries, people hunt for meat, which friends and family eat, Vs in the UK where, a small proportion of venison ends up being taken by the hunter/shooter while most are sold.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Or we would have multiple people sharing permissions and the same number, if not more deer being shot, but each shooter taking deer home throughout the year to eat. Rather than now, where a handful of people shoot most of the deer and complain they don't get paid enough by the game dealer to do it.

In most other countries, people hunt for meat, which friends and family eat, Vs in the UK where, a small proportion of venison ends up being taken by the hunter/shooter while most are sold.

Most people can't even be bothered to cook their own food. They buy microwave meals, or ready cooked smash. Or jeez- even smash!

I like the idea of everyone taking a deer home "for the family pot". But it doesn't really happen anywhere IMO. Other countries have a slightly better balance perhaps- but it's nothing like as idealistic as you suggest it can be. Anywhere in the world- there's nothing like enough wild meat to come remotely close to sustain the population in any meaningful way.

Sharing hunted meat amongst communities would be a nice way of connecting over food occasionally (assuming everyone agreed on eating meat, having it blessed as Halal, how spicey it was, is it gluten free etc etc)- but other than a token idea- it's not scalable.

As to highly prolific stalkers- The 80:20 rule (its usually far higher- 98:2 in some cases) as it often is- occurs just about everywhere.

The 2% best singers earn 98% of the money. 20% of engineers in any firm generate 80% of the best work. The top 10% of teachers generate 90% of the impact on their kids etc etc. It goes on. Everywhere. And stalkers are no exception.

 

[25 Sharps]

Its also the revolution France had one but english people was held down by the noble men.

Don’t tell that to Oliver Cromwell….

 

[25 Sharps]

Good hunting in the states requires you to be in the “good ol boys club” or have money as well. Public land hunting is often over crowded and during certain hunts dangerous. Im not saying public land hunting is fruitless but you do not see any where near the number of or quality of deer as you do on privately owned lands. Either way I see how the opportunity is there compared to no access.
The UK hunting regulations do seem to require you to jump threw many more hoops than in the states, well compared to most states in the US.

Yes and no- pretty much any adult (unless excluded from handling a firearm due to previous convictions) can go out and ‘pay and play’ to shoot a deer with a loaned rifle any day of the year. if shooting cull animals this can also be pretty reasonably priced.

 

[Tim.243]

Most people can't even be bothered to cook their own food. They buy microwave meals, or ready cooked smash. Or jeez- even smash!

I like the idea of everyone taking a deer home "for the family pot". But it doesn't really happen anywhere IMO. Other countries have a slightly better balance perhaps- but it's nothing like as idealistic as you suggest it can be. Anywhere in the world- there's nothing like enough wild meat to come remotely close to sustain the population in any meaningful way.

Sharing hunted meat amongst communities would be a nice way of connecting over food occasionally (assuming everyone agreed on eating meat, having it blessed as Halal, how spicey it was, is it gluten free etc etc)- but other than a token idea- it's not scalable.

As to highly prolific stalkers- The 80:20 rule (its usually far higher- 98:2 in some cases) as it often is- occurs just about everywhere.

The 2% best singers earn 98% of the money. 20% of engineers in any firm generate 80% of the best work. The top 10% of teachers generate 90% of the impact on their kids etc etc. It goes on. Everywhere. And stalkers are no exception.

You are assuming the "one for the pot" people can eat red meat! The biggest reply I get is "the wife has filled the freezer" so no room!
Food life styles changed when the fast food enterprise's started and that was generations ago, then the carvery's turned up, the chip shops have fed people for ever, "steak houses" in the 80's was a good draw.
You need to change your rose specs if you think a mum who has to feed the 5 of them would spend a big part of her shopping money on a roe haunch or an xl chicken.
Go for a weeks holiday in the Med and I bet you would struggle to find Muntjac egg and chips

 

[kenbro]

Good hunting in the states requires you to be in the “good ol boys club” or have money as well. Public land hunting is often over crowded and during certain hunts dangerous. Im not saying public land hunting is fruitless but you do not see any where near the number of or quality of deer as you do on privately owned lands. Either way I see how the opportunity is there compared to no access.
The UK hunting regulations do seem to require you to jump threw many more hoops than in the states, well compared to most states in the US.

We don’t have the Tag lottery though. No tag, no hunt on public land, isn’t it?
Ken .
Ps. I think you do have social media

 

[kenbro]

Or we would have multiple people sharing permissions and the same number, if not more deer being shot, but each shooter taking deer home throughout the year to eat. Rather than now, where a handful of people shoot most of the deer and complain they don't get paid enough by the game dealer to do it.

In most other countries, people hunt for meat, which friends and family eat, Vs in the UK where, a small proportion of venison ends up being taken by the hunter/shooter while most are sold.

In America the hunters are not allowed to sell dead deer to go into the food chain.
I think shop bought venison is farmed.
Kb.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

You are assuming the "one for the pot" people can eat red meat! The biggest reply I get is "the wife has filled the freezer" so no room!
Food life styles changed when the fast food enterprise's started and that was generations ago, then the carvery's turned up, the chip shops have fed people for ever, "steak houses" in the 80's was a good draw.
You need to change your rose specs if you think a mum who has to feed the 5 of them would spend a big part of her shopping money on a roe haunch or an xl chicken.
Go for a weeks holiday in the Med and I bet you would struggle to find Muntjac egg and chips

Yup agreed.

 

[ofbiro]

I cannot agree with the declaration "p

I’m well aware.

But that is the public perception and the historic truth of that fact is the reason.

Private land ownership is the main reason behind the difference in attitudes

No, dear colleague, I cannot agree with you. In Germany or Spain or Austria the right of hunting coincides with land ownership, but the public in those Countries are not visceral "antis", as an "invitation to shoot or stalk" can be purchase from the landowner at a reasonable price.
IMHO, in many Countries the purchase of a firearm is allowed provided that the potential hunter (or shooter) is able to demonstrate a clean police record, and is in reasonable good mental and physical health.
In UK, I understand (correct me if I am wrong) that the police requires proof of free access to target ranges ad/or shooting/stalking grounds to allow the purchase of each firearm.
In a nutshell, in UK the access to hunting and shooting involves a higher income than in other countries.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

I was a member of a shooting club in Deal Kent, the most members there shot .22lr and some did do full bore pistol on a special night. I might have been the only member back then owning some full bore rifles one of which was collected while working in the USA but the police did not cause me any grief about adding them to my UK paperwork back in the 1980-90s.
BTW Income levels around Deal are very generally low due to there being no decent industries locally.

 

[63]

Yes and no- pretty much any adult (unless excluded from handling a firearm due to previous convictions) can go out and ‘pay and play’ to shoot a deer with a loaned rifle any day of the year. if shooting cull animals this can also be pretty reasonably priced.

Yeah, I was pondering on this the other day after replying on the ‘why is it so hard to get into stalking’ thread.

On reflection, I reckon stalking is probably the easiest shooting sport to get into. Google a guide, pay him (or her) a couple of hundred quid for a cull stalk, job done.

Much easier than trying to get a permission for small game shooting or joining a HO approved club or whatever.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

 

[dryan]

I think land ownership has a lot to do with it. Over here most land is owned by small farmers and access to hunt is accepted by the majority of you're local and help keep fox numbers down.

Also due to the land ownership model, most city folk will have an uncle, grandfather who has a farm and had some exposure to country life at some point.

I can freely talk here about "the deer management" I do, I was a bit more tight lipped when lived in Cheshire.

 

[Jax]

Is this just a massive cultural difference and attitude to hunting between the two countries?

I try to keep my shooting and fishing interests quiet, especially with UK business clients. US clients on the other hand, it’s all we talk about. Well, that and Whiskey.

 

[f17ant]

Just different cultures, my family is Greek Cypriots and they are fascinated that me and my mentor stalk deer (especially as they only have them in zoo’s lol), hunt ducks, pheasants and rabbits. There’s nothing in Cyprus you can hunt really and can only own section 2 shotguns no rifles. Most of them have to travel to Greece or Bulgaria to have decent game

I have found though a lot of my friends actually enjoy game meat I give them and show a lot of interest in hunting. However many of their wife’s won’t allow them to have a SGC or FAC even though they eat the food I give out. So if your wife’s don’t moan at you for having firearms consider yourself lucky

 

[KimE]

Just different cultures, my family is Greek Cypriots and they are fascinated that me and my mentor stalk deer (especially as they only have them in zoo’s lol), hunt ducks, pheasants and rabbits. There’s nothing in Cyprus you can hunt really and can only own section 2 shotguns no rifles. Most of them have to travel to Greece or Bulgaria to have decent game

I have found though a lot of my friends actually enjoy game meat I give them and show a lot of interest in hunting. However many of their wife’s won’t allow them to have a SGC or FAC even though they eat the food I give out. So if your wife’s don’t moan at you for having firearms consider yourself lucky

5% of the women hunt here 6% of military conscripts are women and the same for competition shooting.

 

[f17ant]

5% of the women hunt here 6% of military conscripts are women and the same for competition shooting.

I don’t get your point here ? that’s good and all I’m just saying I know a lot of people that their wives won’t allow them to have a SGC or FAC. More in the UK than other countries like America for example that’s why a celebrity can post hunting pictures with no back lash as it’s considered normal