big cat just maybe

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There are some people I have absolute faith in, Simon Chippendale being one, who swear to me that they have seen big cats. These folks are people who I have trusted my children with, so I do not think they are numpties.

But for pity's sake, how often do we have to go through this on the site, it always degenerates into a, "are you calling me a liar" thread.

I was the one who has posted (on many forums) a letter I recieved from DEFRA on the legitimacy of shooting a big cat if one was to be shot. I had written to them because stalkers I knew well were telling me they had seen big cats.

But why oh why do they always have to be black? This is a relatively rare genetic mutation in leopards. So why can't we have brown big cats? Why do folks always insist upon them being black?

Black Panthers are a "relatively" rare genetic mutation and are not a distict and seperate species.

It's like de ja vu all over again!

Simon
 
Did you ever see the programme on the "Loch Ness Monster" where all the sightigs were investigated, turned out that the vast majority of sightings were other things mistaken for the "Monster" something in the brain which seeks to rationalise what you are actually seeing, so a rollling wave becomes the "Beast" because you are in the area where the beast was seen and so your brain sees anything not immediately recogniseable as "Oh! it must be the beast" Of course there was always the one that couldnt be explained!

Same with UFO,s, some sightings defy explanation.

Why are they always Black, because a dark shape seen in bad light or at a distance, always looks Black!

I run a coach and taxi service, on one of the school contracts a child asked me to confirm to his mate that UFO's didnt exist, how could I? I have never seen one, but does that mean they dont exist! So i asked the child if God existed, without reservation he replied "Of course he does"? I responded "How do you know"?

I do a lot of stalking, I always carry my video camera which is capable of taking still photos as well, I would suggest the vast majority of stalkers carry a camera for their trophy photos, where are all the photos of these cats then? How many campers and caravaners and hikers and bikers are there trundling about in the countryside, yet still, there is a distinct lack of photographic evidence, that doesnt mean there are no cats, think about this, 99% of people have probably never seen a live badger.

The key to these matters is keeping an open mind.
 
Fewer than 1 in 10,000 will have seen a wild cat in the wild!!!!!!!!!!!! Even when they were quite common very few saw them. We know they are there. Jim
 
flytie said:
But for pity's sake, how often do we have to go through this on the site, it always degenerates into a, "are you calling me a liar" thread.

But why oh why do they always have to be black? This is a relatively rare genetic mutation in leopards. So why can't we have brown big cats? Why do folks always insist upon them being black?

Black Panthers are a "relatively" rare genetic mutation and are not a distict and seperate species.

It's like de ja vu all over again!

Simon
Click to expand...

Because everyone who states there are no feral big cats in the UK because they haven't seen one must there for be implying that anyone who has seen one is a liar!

As for the fact that most leopards seen in the UK are black, its quite obvious as the majority of leopards in the UK in the 60's and 70's were black as thats what was the most popular so thats the dominant gene in the small gene pool thats over here.

A friend while driving the farm sprayer followed a cougar 20 yards in front along a tram line in a field of wheat for around 50 yards. I think he had a good view from up there!
 
I just cant understand why there has been no proof beyond doubt by now, we are a small island with a big population compared to alot of other countries surley somebody would have taken a photo over the years that has been confirmed to be real where are all the left overs of there food asuming they take deer sized animals that is, im certainly not saying there is not a chance there are any here but surley over the last say 25 years with everybody carying cameras/phones and trail cameras we would have proof but still we dont, i would love to see one just to say to myself that i have and they are here and a bit of me hopes that they are here and we did have them like the lynx they are beautiful creatures, we probably live in one of the most boring countries when it come to these sorts of creatures just imagine going out and having the chane of seeing one, i no i would like the chance to over here obviously would not be good for deer numbers though
 
Cougar said:
As for the fact that most leopards seen in the UK are black, its quite obvious as the majority of leopards in the UK in the 60's and 70's were black as thats what was the most popular so thats the dominant gene in the small gene pool thats over here.
Click to expand...
how long do you think these things live ? how many do you think are out there ? what are the chances of a pair bumping into each other when the female is in breeding condition ? given the number of fox litters found how do cat litters go unnoticed ? what makes you think 2 black coloured cats would throw black young instead of the normal fawn colour ? how do young , and old , evade road traffic , trains , stalkers , keepers , snares , cage traps and foxhounds ? why arent kills found in trees ? there are some strange things out there but they dont last long , i once pulled a dead kangaroo out of a swimming pool in the 80s
 
trouble said:
how long do you think these things live ? how many do you think are out there ? what are the chances of a pair bumping into each other when the female is in breeding condition ? given the number of fox litters found how do cat litters go unnoticed ? what makes you think 2 black coloured cats would throw black young instead of the normal fawn colour ? how do young , and old , evade road traffic , trains , stalkers , keepers , snares , cage traps and foxhounds ? why arent kills found in trees ? there are some strange things out there but they dont last long , i once pulled a dead kangaroo out of a swimming pool in the 80s
Click to expand...

Well its 36 years since the act and who knows how many were released. The average age I guess would over be 10years plus because of the lack of competition from other predators like lions or tigers in their native homes. If a male tiger in Siberia can have a home range of 400sq miles then I see no reason why that couldn't apply to leopards over here. The reason why 2 black leopards are more likely to produce black offspring is because the black gene is the dominant gene in this very small genetic bottle neck. I've never seen a fawn leopard before!? You find so many fox cubs because there are so many foxes! If there was only a leopard population of 250 in the whole of the UK what are the chance of finding just one litter! Very small. The reason that you don't see them is because they've already seen or heard you coming! And cats go up, they don't sit on the floor! The average fox cage trap is to small for them. If your setting snares then their feline gait is totally wrong for a snare set for a fox. You don't go to Africa step off the plane and start seeing leopards, they are a shy and elusive animal. In some parts of Africa they many have a population density of one per 2sq miles! The Uk is 94.000 sq miles so if we had a population of 250 thats a leopard every 376 sq miles, good luck!
 
At a density of 1 animal per 376sq miles in this country compared to 1 in every 2sq miles what are the chances of a male and female meeting? Also what is the comparison between habitat types, prey density, and human density between the UK and Africa? These considerations are what prompt questions like why aren't more stock taken. And why haven't we got any concrete evidence to back up sightings. I suggest that there is less wild prey per square mile here - I.e. prey that isn't managed like sheep for example assuming they don't like the taste of lamb. And far more humans per square km. Surely these increase the chance of a sighting? As far as i'm concerned until I see one with my own eyes big cats in the UK do not exist.
 
The life expectancy of the big cats hovers round the 15 to 18 years mark. That means that for there to be live cats extant in the countryside that are descended from those released after the introduction of the rules on keeping dangerous animals, they would have to at least be third generation, probably fourth.

We might wonder why, if there are cats around we've not spotted any. Remember though, that these are animals fantastically equipped to see, hear and smell things long before they are spotted themselves. It's a pre-requisite of being a succesful hunter, and no-one can doubt that cats are that!

As for finding a partner to mate with, they use all sorts of tricks to do that, scent marking being the main one(ok, likely to drive dogs mad but who's to say they're smelling a big cat, not a badger/fox etc.) So IF they are around, I see no reason why getting together to find a mate should prove any particular problem.

Using the "one every 376 square miles" is a bit of a falsehood, as they are more likely to live in concentrations, with huge swathes of the countryside unpopulated.

The lack of evidence for something doesn't per se prove that it doesn't exist (it's virtually impossible to prove the non-existence of something) but the lack of empirical evidence, by way of a body, an indesputible cat kill (by DNA or behaviour, such as treeing) a good picture or similar, does seem to reduce the probability of them being around.

That said, there are huge areas of the country that are rarely visited, and have plenty of cover for a wily creature to hide in. It also seems that sightings tend to group together, which is entirely as you would expect.

So, we could go on all day trying to prove the point either way. We can never prove that they are here, except in the strict legal sense of "beyond reasonable doubt" and I don't think we can even say that at the moment. Of course just one cat found would prove the case FOR the existence.

Do I think there are big cats on the loose? Frankly there's not enough evidence either way, but I would have to say, on balance of probability it's unlikely.
 
3 times where I am and around the same area, a 1000 acre block of woodland. Once in the morning in perfect light, once at about 20.00 on a may evening and once at night walking the dogs at 40yds and the spaniel was not happy about it at all!:shock:
 
trouble said:
how long do you think these things live ? how many do you think are out there ? what are the chances of a pair bumping into each other when the female is in breeding condition ? given the number of fox litters found how do cat litters go unnoticed ? what makes you think 2 black coloured cats would throw black young instead of the normal fawn colour ? how do young , and old , evade road traffic , trains , stalkers , keepers , snares , cage traps and foxhounds ? why arent kills found in trees ? there are some strange things out there but they dont last long , i once pulled a dead kangaroo out of a swimming pool in the 80s
Click to expand...

Was michael barrymore anywhere near at the time:rofl:
 
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