Blue sky thinking.

[VSS]

Hi all, thanks for the replies, the thing is most are repeating the problems, I’m trying to find novel solutions. VSS you say the supply chain is broken, how do we fix it?

Collaboration.

Make game dealers take all deer not just the larger ones?

No, game dealers should be turning a lot of deer away, and only accepting the very best. That way:
a) The price would increase.
b) Stalkers would up their game with regards to shot placement carcass presentation.

I know you are happy with rules about selling venison but if I want to sell something simple like mince I have to register as a food business. I think this puts off a lot of people who don’t want to be a full on butcher but be able to sell small amounts. Should the rules be relaxed?

No, the rules are very relaxed as it is. Registering as a food business is simple and free. You need to register even if all you do is sell carcasses to a game dealer.
If you think the rules are stiff, just have a look at how much red tape the livestock industry has to contend with. I can't legally kill, butcher and sell a single one of my sheep or cows, but I can deer.

If someone has stalking rights should they have quotas they have to meet?
I think it has been mentioned here before but if someone wants to shoot a male deer they have to shoot so many females first.

That's down to the management plan agreed between the landowner and the stalker. I don't think it should be dictated, but I do think that advice and guidance should be freely and readily available to assist them in making the plan.

As I say I’m just trying to generate ideas however wacky

 

[Mr. Gain]

I was having trouble finding anyone to take roe carcasses skin-on, so I registered as a food business, and quickly found two butchers willing to buy skinned carcasses regularly. I had my first EH inspection last week and that went fine. It's a minimalist set-up: gralloching and skinning in the field, same-day delivery to the butcher's when opening hours permit, and an overnight stay in my Landing 7000 before delivery the next morning when they don't.
I'm very low volume, about 4 carcasses into the butcher's per month, but it's letting me shoot what needs shooting, making a useful contribution to fuel and cartridges, and getting a few more local people eating venison.
The butcher's not interested in muntjac, unfortunately, so shooting those is still limited by what family and friends can use.

 

[Tim.243]

Hi all, thanks for the replies, the thing is most are repeating the problems, I’m trying to find novel solutions. VSS you say the supply chain is broken, how do we fix it? Make game dealers take all deer not just the larger ones? I know you are happy with rules about selling venison but if I want to sell something simple like mince I have to register as a food business. I think this puts off a lot of people who don’t want to be a full on butcher but be able to sell small amounts. Should the rules be relaxed?
If someone has stalking rights should they have quotas they have to meet?
I think it has been mentioned here before but if someone wants to shoot a male deer they have to shoot so many females first.
As I say I’m just trying to generate ideas however wacky

Reaching a quota with transient deer is next to impossible, (not blue sky but pigs will fly) there were 15 fallow in a group shot one with the other 14 pile onto the neighbour's bit and stay there most of the day, shot 1 muntjac this afternoon with 2 more over the boundary in cover.
Apart for Scotland the seasons dictate that part so shooting x amount of females first runs into the (that won't work) wall.

Fix the pots hole first lol

 

[Bavarianbrit]

It is so easy to blame Recreational stalker's lots of us are crying out to shoot deer i have a perm but no deer.
Land owners not allowing any shooting to take place.
Stalker's who have to make a living and have large areas.
So we all need to help each other in stalking

Stalker's who want to make a living from it and have large areas locked into them alone?
Not just trains being damaged but vehicle drivers not being educated ref the times of the day they may hit a deer on the road if they drive too fast.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Public access stalking.

 

[Dickie]

Someone has stalking rights they should have quotas a very open statement who sets them, who accesses the area, who pays for it?/ as Tim says how if the deer are there on accessment day but gone the next day do you meet the quota and if you fall to achieve it what’s the penalty?

 

[Chris Richardson]

But think of the grants these land owner's receive.
Think they have rules on land management and pest control.
But VSS what about stalkers who want deer left for a better fee.
Yes us part timers need to cull more we put in the time on our permissions but if no deer there what can we do.
We pay for a stalk with other cost.

Bill if there are no deer on your permissions then clearly there isnt a deer problem there ?

 

[Mr. Gain]

An addendum to the comment about muntjac in my post about selling skinned deer as a food business: I took the butcher a couple more roe does yesterday and discussed muntjac with him. The result, he has agreed to take some muntjac in the summer months when he'll be selling venison mostly as burgers and sausages for barbeques and the size of the cuts won't matter. It'll be on a trial basis at first, but I explained that I won't be able to take as many roe in buck season, and he was keen for the supply to continue. I mention this in case it helps others in my situation handle their muntjac populationzs. Not perfect, by any means, but a positive development, nonetheless.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Slightly off topic but matters can't be helped by those stalkers with the good fortunate to have access to an Approved Game Handling Establishment (AGHE) but are confronted with a cast-in-stone requiremnt to only supply head shot beasts.

K

 

[mudman]

No outlet for the carcasses

That’s it.

Provide a market for in skin carcasses at a reasonable price and the deer ‘problem’ will go in a season or two.

 

[Ratel]

Someone has stalking rights they should have quotas a very open statement who sets them, who accesses the area, who pays for it?/ as Tim says how if the deer are there on accessment day but gone the next day do you meet the quota and if you fall to achieve it what’s the penalty?

We have the problem of transiemt Fallow. Take yesterday, went to one end of our ground, there were over 100 deer on one field. Where they were was impossible to get a shot with footpaths and no backstop. Ok leave and come back they may move to the hilly bit (An hour later they had vanished).
Moved to next best place would you believe 163 deer, but in the one field that isnt ours and belongs to "Uncle Fester" who hates everybody and wants to fight them all. Left there and had a general look round, one or two stalkable bunches but across the river, the ford access is 30-40 yards wide after the rain so no chance. Back again to starting point to see about 20 in another field and stalkable. On the stalk anothe 40 or so came out of the wood. Just in position a dog walker with loose dog appears and off they go.They hesitate at the edge of the wood and its do I shoot (perfectly safe) with the dog walker watching the deer he was 300 yds away and behind. Took the shot at a young doe,the rest vanished Ok but a lot of work for one deer in an area where they are transient.
Dealers only taking head or neck shot (so f them) and my butcher has enough, will have to get a JCB or incinerator for the days when we do succeed.

 

[finbar]

Has the rest of Europe got the same problem as us in the uk
My mate used to have a place in France & said when there was a big hunt day on the whole village got involved
Big feast at end of day much eating & drinking
Can you imagine that happening here
A take a few deer a year say 12. 15 don’t have much of a problem getting rid of them but that’s spread over mainly winter months deer can hang bit longer in shed … only take a few bucks
Ma old chiller broke couple years ago have yet to replace it
But as one lad on here said I take a lot of rabbits pigeons crows of farms as a way of getting to shoot deer some farms no deer some good few

 

[Tim.243]

Slightly off topic but matters can't be helped by those stalkers with the good fortunate to have access to an Approved Game Handling Establishment (AGHE) but are confronted with a cast-in-stone requiremnt to only supply head shot beasts.

K

Not true Richard we take in head/neck and body shot reds/fallow but like everything in life there is an adjustment in price.
This low neck shot fallow buck was not far behind his mother who was chest shot also a lot heavier than him (being a yearling)
The young doe (chest shot) from the other morning I cut up for the farmer as it was under a weight tariff also chest shot.
Come August a "full of fat" Fallow buck will incur deductions as there is no market for deer fat, also labour and disposal cost.

 

[tarponhead]

For those with no local AGHE and only limited interest from people prepared to skin and butcher themselves, this is critical for me. After taking a red this morning and already having a roe and fallow in my chiller, my plans for stalking on the weekend have been cancelled as I have no space to hold more and need to butcher first before I can get out again. Deep joy

I’d buy a carcass from you if you were close. PM me with your location if you’d like? I just found a game dealer who will take carcasses from me, but I have no ground holding deer near to me - everything local is spoken for - and yet the game dealer can’t get venison - go figure!

 

[Border]

Has the rest of Europe got the same problem as us in the uk
My mate used to have a place in France & said when there was a big hunt day on the whole village got involved
Big feast at end of day much eating & drinking
Can you imagine that happening here
A take a few deer a year say 12. 15 don’t have much of a problem getting rid of them but that’s spread over mainly winter months deer can hang bit longer in shed … only take a few bucks
Ma old chiller broke couple years ago have yet to replace it
But as one lad on here said I take a lot of rabbits pigeons crows of farms as a way of getting to shoot deer some farms no deer some good few

I believe that the short answer to that is no.
The UK is pretty unique with it’s abundance of deer species and stalking possibilities.
Our deer season finished at Xmas and doesnt open until august 10th for roebucks.
We have ALOT less deer than the UK.

 

[Chris Richardson]

Slightly off topic but matters can't be helped by those stalkers with the good fortunate to have access to an Approved Game Handling Establishment (AGHE) but are confronted with a cast-in-stone requiremnt to only supply head shot beasts.

K

Then I suppose some stalkers will have to get less squeamish about head / neck shooting deer ? Can’t have it both ways

 

[bottletopbill]

Bill if there are no deer on your permissions then clearly there isnt a deer problem there ?

Wished there was deer I have seen one there in over 18 yrs they are 1 mile up the road as sat and watched them

 

[Tim.243]

I’d buy a carcass from you if you were close. PM me with your location if you’d like? I just found a game dealer who will take carcasses from me, but I have no ground holding deer near to me - everything local is spoken for - and yet the game dealer can’t get venison - go figure!

Then he should/could put his prices up as there is enough profit in deer to up the price. Some dealers collect deer and add a "bit" then move them on wholesale so with a low price they have a bit of profit. No different to car traders "nicking a few quid" from their part x's
It will only be deer this is done with not rabbits/hares/pheasants, those who buy deer and process themselves keep the costs inhouse.

 

[Chris Richardson]

Wished there was deer I have seen one there in over 18 yrs they are 1 mile up the road as sat and watched them

Sooner or later they’ll come , that said though it shows there’s not a big deer problem in the immediate area

 

[wytonpjs]

I’d buy a carcass from you if you were close. PM me with your location if you’d like? I just found a game dealer who will take carcasses from me, but I have no ground holding deer near to me - everything local is spoken for - and yet the game dealer can’t get venison - go figure!

Sadly too far (I’m North Bristol) but the irony is that this red came from South of Exeter (write up to follow).

Sadly, customers like this are too few despite me thinking Bristol/Bath would be awash with people willing and able to process good venison