Blue sky thinking.

[Ploddy Paul]

Apologies if you think this has been done to death already but here goes.
Too many deer in certain parts of the country. Systems in place ineffective.
I read an article a few months ago in the BASC magazine about this problem and the best they could come up with was to mentor people so they would be ready to take on their own permission, ( as if there’s a list of land just waiting for the right person to take it on!), and to sell more venison to friends and family. Well I have few family and even fewer friends and those able or willing to take a carcass with the coat on and butcher themselves is very small.
So can SD come up with some better ideas? Blue sky thinking, thinking out the box, whatever you want to call it, don’t worry about detail at the moment, ( that’s so last century!). Get some ideas down and maybe get the BASC or whoever thinking.
I’ll start.
I read recently that RTA’s involving deer cost the British car insurance companies 17 million pounds.
Couldn’t they sponsor a scheme to guarantee a minimum price for a deer carcass? Less deer = less RTA’s!
Speaking to a chap recently who is an engineer on trains. They have a big problem when a train hits a deer at speed and the deer goes under the train and lumps of ballast get caught up and thrown against the underside of the train. Again this must be costing a lot of money.
If you have a FAC based on membership of a club you have to show attendance and use of the firearm. Why not the same if your FAC is for shooting deer?
Give it some thought please, Paul

 

[shakey jake]

Apologies if you think this has been done to death already but here goes.
Too many deer in certain parts of the country. Systems in place ineffective.
I read an article a few months ago in the BASC magazine about this problem and the best they could come up with was to mentor people so they would be ready to take on their own permission, ( as if there’s a list of land just waiting for the right person to take it on!), and to sell more venison to friends and family. Well I have few family and even fewer friends and those able or willing to take a carcass with the coat on and butcher themselves is very small.
So can SD come up with some better ideas? Blue sky thinking, thinking out the box, whatever you want to call it, don’t worry about detail at the moment, ( that’s so last century!). Get some ideas down and maybe get the BASC or whoever thinking.
I’ll start.
I read recently that RTA’s involving deer cost the British car insurance companies 17 million pounds.
Couldn’t they sponsor a scheme to guarantee a minimum price for a deer carcass? Less deer = less RTA’s!
Speaking to a chap recently who is an engineer on trains. They have a big problem when a train hits a deer at speed and the deer goes under the train and lumps of ballast get caught up and thrown against the underside of the train. Again this must be costing a lot of money.
If you have a FAC based on membership of a club you have to show attendance and use of the firearm. Why not the same if your FAC is for shooting deer?
Give it some thought please, Paul

Do you honestly think the deer problem is stalker related?
Its the land owners that cause the issue, either letting a syndicate shoot less deer than they should or just stopping deer control.
I only shoot deer to eat or feed the dogs, why should i kill more to protect a privatly owned train? Or some one elses car?
Train lines could be deer fenced, removal of level crossing, replaced with bridges. Network rail could pay for culling to deer currently on the tracks

 

[Klenchblaize]

May as well get this in early:

In your reference to limited disposal of venison c/o family & freinds you've nailed the primary reason why so many deerstalkers are unwilling/unable to shoot more than they can dispose of via this mechanism.

Introduce something akin to community deer larders or even DEFRA sponsored County insineration plants to permit FREE carcass disposal, and deer cull numbers would increase by 100% at my reading.

K

 

[VSS]

Demand for venison is going up and up.
I had an enquiry recently from a company that requires 3 tonnes a week!

Bottom line is:
Recreational stalkers are sitting on too much land and not shooting enough deer.

Plus, landowners should be paying people to shoot deer, not the other way around.

Also, routes to market and supply chains need fixing. Currently they're broken.

 

[opticron1]

Indeed.....and in particular your last point about the routes to market Tim!
It's a shame that we are in the situation that small abattoirs are disappearing (and have been for some years!) and the larger abattoirs have no interest in small producers in general and game suppliers in particular..... maybe some useful Government intervention would be of some help........highly unlikely, but we live in hope....one day.......

 

[VSS]

Indeed.....and in particular your last point about the routes to market Tim!
It's a shame that we are in the situation that small abattoirs are disappearing (and have been for some years!) and the larger abattoirs have no interest in small producers in general and game suppliers in particular..... maybe some useful Government intervention would be of some help........highly unlikely, but we live in hope....one day.......

Do we really want government intervention?
I don't think so, because once it starts it won't stop. And there would be a whole raft of legislation and compulsory qualifications to accompany it. No thank you!
In my opinion, we have to fix this problem from within, and be seen to be fixing it.
And the first stage of that would be for stalkers to stop being so negative about the value of the service they can provide and the value of the carcasses they produce.

 

[wytonpjs]

I had an enquiry recently from a company that requires 3 tonnes a week!

That'll be Louisa - I forwarded my email on to someone better placed to assist and was advised that she was looking for 100 tonnes! Maybe, the market could be getting better

 

[WW.]

Get groups of stalkers in an area to work together to find a local butcher who needs a few extra quid and has or is willing to get the right paperwork for taking in-skin carcasses. Rent larder space if keeping carcass, if not keeping it then potentially have butcher butchering and selling the meat, split profits.

 

[bottletopbill]

It is so easy to blame Recreational stalker's lots of us are crying out to shoot deer i have a perm but no deer.
Land owners not allowing any shooting to take place.
Stalker's who have to make a living and have large areas.
So we all need to help each other in stalking

 

[Chris Richardson]

I think a lot of recreational stalkers massively overestimate their ability to cull large numbers of deer , I’m not saying they don’t have a part to play but be careful what you wish for I’ve shot 8 deer this week and out again 3 times next week it takes over your life

 

[bottletopbill]

One or two a week would make a small dent in numbers .Every one killed is one less breeding.

 

[tarponhead]

Demand for venison is going up and up.
I had an enquiry recently from a company that requires 3 tonnes a week!

Bottom line is:
Recreational stalkers are sitting on too much land and not shooting enough deer.

Plus, landowners should be paying people to shoot deer, not the other way around.

Also, routes to market and supply chains need fixing. Currently they're broken.

All of the above - lots of recreational stalking held back by high costs and access limited by land or ironically, shooting rights ownership.

Not sure what the solution is though. Private land is private and should remain so, as its property, but there could be a duty on landowners to adequately control pests and deer numbers, or lose benefits given for so called “stewardship” of the countryside. Many do great job, but many more don’t and I would include the many small holdings covered in junk and large commercial farming enterprises who rip hedges out, pollute watercourses with poultry effluent and practice intensive monoculture farming to the detriment of everyone and everything else.

 

[bottletopbill]

But think of the grants these land owner's receive.
Think they have rules on land management and pest control.
But VSS what about stalkers who want deer left for a better fee.
Yes us part timers need to cull more we put in the time on our permissions but if no deer there what can we do.
We pay for a stalk with other cost.

 

[Dorset Guy]

Demand for venison is going up and up.
I had an enquiry recently from a company that requires 3 tonnes a week!

Bottom line is:
Recreational stalkers are sitting on too much land and not shooting enough deer.

Plus, landowners should be paying people to shoot deer, not the other way around.

Also, routes to market and supply chains need fixing. Currently they're broken.

Well said

 

[wytonpjs]

Also, routes to market and supply chains need fixing. Currently they're broken.

For those with no local AGHE and only limited interest from people prepared to skin and butcher themselves, this is critical for me. After taking a red this morning and already having a roe and fallow in my chiller, my plans for stalking on the weekend have been cancelled as I have no space to hold more and need to butcher first before I can get out again. Deep joy

 

[Tim.243]

It is so easy to blame Recreational stalker's lots of us are crying out to shoot deer i have a perm but no deer.
Land owners not allowing any shooting to take place.
Stalker's who have to make a living and have large areas.
So we all need to help each other in stalking

There is the other side of the coin, people who only want to start off shooting deer and are not interested in setting their sights lower and gaining experience (field craft) for want of a better word.
This subject goes around and around, landowners choose to not let people on their ground for many reasons which is highlighted in italics that will be one part of many reasons and people have to (but don't) except that. Personally I am lucky enough to have some nice bits of ground but not shy to have slogged away on rabbits pigeons corvids foxes which again is in italics.

 

[Klenchblaize]

For those with no local AGHE and only limited interest from people prepared to skin and butcher themselves, this is critical for me. After taking a red this morning and already having a roe and fallow in my chiller, my plans for stalking on the weekend have been cancelled as I have no space to hold more and need to butcher first before I can get out again. Deep joy

Nail hit TDC.

VSS asserts "routes to market and supply chains need fixing" but what he fails to recognise is they are not "broken" as they've never been meaningfully in place from the outset in the context of wild venison in Lowland England.

K

 

[VSS]

Nail hit TDC.

VSS asserts "routes to market and supply chains need fixing" but what he fails to recognise is they are not "broken" as they've never been meaningfully in place in the first place in the context of wild venison in Lowland England.

K

I think all the bits are in place, but they've never been joined up.

 

[Chris Richardson]

For those with no local AGHE and only limited interest from people prepared to skin and butcher themselves, this is critical for me. After taking a red this morning and already having a roe and fallow in my chiller, my plans for stalking on the weekend have been cancelled as I have no space to hold more and need to butcher first before I can get out again. Deep joy

I feel your pain I’ve butchered 4 given 4 away I’m hoping to give more away next week

 

[Ploddy Paul]

Hi all, thanks for the replies, the thing is most are repeating the problems, I’m trying to find novel solutions. VSS you say the supply chain is broken, how do we fix it? Make game dealers take all deer not just the larger ones? I know you are happy with rules about selling venison but if I want to sell something simple like mince I have to register as a food business. I think this puts off a lot of people who don’t want to be a full on butcher but be able to sell small amounts. Should the rules be relaxed?
If someone has stalking rights should they have quotas they have to meet?
I think it has been mentioned here before but if someone wants to shoot a male deer they have to shoot so many females first.
As I say I’m just trying to generate ideas however wacky