Nickb
Well-Known Member
Nothings decided yet so get them shot.
Lead update.
- Thread starter gixer1
- Start date
you have likely five years to use them , oh wait no best you scrap them if local I am happy to do that for you
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
There is no compensation scheme in the recommendations. Your comments about BASC are untrue and I think you know that given that BASC has been fighting lead ammunition bans since they were first proposed in a 1983 Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution report. What shooting organisation are you a member of?
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
No links to illness from lead?
Please can you then explain why new cancer treatments that involve removing lead and other heavy metals are showing such promising results in the likes acute myeloid leukaemia and small cell lung cancer, with first products receiving orphan drug status in the US earlier this year. This is a lot of new science and the work is ongoing.
In the meantime have a read of the following published by the Game Conservancy and in particular have a read of the papers cited.
Alternatively have a read of
Hunting with lead: Association between blood lead levels and wild game consumption
Wild game hunting is a popular activity in many regions of the United States. Recently, the presence of lead fragments in wild game meat, presumably f…
www.sciencedirect.com
Shows that eating lead shot game results in a higher lead level in the blood compared to those who do not eat leadshot game.
Hunt et al. Demonstrated the bioavailability of ingested lead through studies in scientific pigs which have a very similar gut to humans and are used as a surrogate.
Lead Bullet Fragments in Venison from Rifle-Killed Deer: Potential for Human Dietary Exposure
Human consumers of wildlife killed with lead ammunition may be exposed to health risks associated with lead ingestion. This hypothesis is based on published studies showing elevated blood lead concentrations in subsistence hunter populations, retention of ammunition residues in the tissues of...
journals.plos.org
Finally the core research that was the fundamental springboard to the development of new Cancer therapies involving the removal of lead and other toxic metals.
You are fully free to think that lead ingestion is not harmful. Go back 30 to 40 years the same view was on tobacco. Whilst you can still smoke in private you cannot smoke in any public area where others can inhale second hand smoke.
With shooting, every time you fire a gun you are putting more lead into the environment, and in particular meat products destined for human consumption.
A cornerstone of shooting is that we are eating free range game free from toxic injections, chemicals etc. Yet it is being shot with a widely regarded as toxic substance necessitating major health warnings from healthcare and food standards professions. Doesn’t quite square.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Disproportionate my friend.No links to illness from lead?
Please can you then explain why new cancer treatments that involve removing lead and other heavy metals are showing such promising results in the likes acute myeloid leukaemia and small cell lung cancer, with first products receiving orphan drug status in the US earlier this year. This is a lot of new science and the work is ongoing.
In the meantime have a read of the following published by the Game Conservancy and in particular have a read of the papers cited.
Alternatively have a read of
Hunting with lead: Association between blood lead levels and wild game consumption
Wild game hunting is a popular activity in many regions of the United States. Recently, the presence of lead fragments in wild game meat, presumably f…
Shows that eating lead shot game results in a higher lead level in the blood compared to those who do not eat leadshot game.
Hunt et al. Demonstrated the bioavailability of ingested lead through studies in scientific pigs which have a very similar gut to humans and are used as a surrogate.
Lead Bullet Fragments in Venison from Rifle-Killed Deer: Potential for Human Dietary Exposure
Human consumers of wildlife killed with lead ammunition may be exposed to health risks associated with lead ingestion. This hypothesis is based on published studies showing elevated blood lead concentrations in subsistence hunter populations, retention of ammunition residues in the tissues of...
Finally the core research that was the fundamental springboard to the development of new Cancer therapies involving the removal of lead and other toxic metals.
You are fully free to think that lead ingestion is not harmful. Go back 30 to 40 years the same view was on tobacco. Whilst you can still smoke in private you cannot smoke in any public area where others can inhale second hand smoke.
With shooting, every time you fire a gun you are putting more lead into the environment, and in particular meat products destined for human consumption.
A cornerstone of shooting is that we are eating free range game free from toxic injections, chemicals etc. Yet it is being shot with a widely regarded as toxic substance necessitating major health warnings from healthcare and food standards professions. Doesn’t quite square.
Shooting lead is insignificant compared to lead flashing on roofing.
Lead in galvanized zinc coating.
Lead in cars.
Hospitals.
It's in some plastics.
Shell fish and other foods contain lead.
I would like to place a bet with you.
£1000 says that in 10 years post this UK lead ban the general health of the UK population has NOT improved. You on?
I’m not as well learned as yourself and have trouble finding and then interpreting data.No links to illness from lead?
Please can you then explain why new cancer treatments that involve removing lead and other heavy metals are showing such promising results in the likes acute myeloid leukaemia and small cell lung cancer, with first products receiving orphan drug status in the US earlier this year. This is a lot of new science and the work is ongoing.
In the meantime have a read of the following published by the Game Conservancy and in particular have a read of the papers cited.
Alternatively have a read of
Hunting with lead: Association between blood lead levels and wild game consumption
Wild game hunting is a popular activity in many regions of the United States. Recently, the presence of lead fragments in wild game meat, presumably f…
Shows that eating lead shot game results in a higher lead level in the blood compared to those who do not eat leadshot game.
Hunt et al. Demonstrated the bioavailability of ingested lead through studies in scientific pigs which have a very similar gut to humans and are used as a surrogate.
Lead Bullet Fragments in Venison from Rifle-Killed Deer: Potential for Human Dietary Exposure
Human consumers of wildlife killed with lead ammunition may be exposed to health risks associated with lead ingestion. This hypothesis is based on published studies showing elevated blood lead concentrations in subsistence hunter populations, retention of ammunition residues in the tissues of...
Finally the core research that was the fundamental springboard to the development of new Cancer therapies involving the removal of lead and other toxic metals.
You are fully free to think that lead ingestion is not harmful. Go back 30 to 40 years the same view was on tobacco. Whilst you can still smoke in private you cannot smoke in any public area where others can inhale second hand smoke.
With shooting, every time you fire a gun you are putting more lead into the environment, and in particular meat products destined for human consumption.
A cornerstone of shooting is that we are eating free range game free from toxic injections, chemicals etc. Yet it is being shot with a widely regarded as toxic substance necessitating major health warnings from healthcare and food standards professions. Doesn’t quite square.
Would you happen to know if any studies have been done in Africa, specifically areas where either bushmeat or meat from trophy hunters’ hunts is being distributed to the local population?
They would be a good baseline with lead from other sources being scarce (I would think, but then again what do I know?).
Another study that would be good would be one where the indigenous people are primarily vegetarian.
I doubt that either study will exist.
Lastly, if lead is removed from shooting but the level of lead being detected in people still increases how will success be measured?
Whitefront
Well-Known Member
Every one of the dozen times I went hunting in Africa we all used copper, normally Barnes. Mr Barnes developed his copper bullets back in the late 1980s because the old lead cup and core stuff performed so erratically and he wanted something much better for Alaskan bears and African game. Lead-based rifle bullets eventually improved with the advent of bonding technology - with consequent huge increases in cost - but I wouldn't be surprised if Barnes and other premium non-lead rounds are still favoured by African trophy hunters today. Of course, many locals will use the cheapest stuff available, and that's likely to be traditional lead.
In this country, I gave up using lead for shotgunning game birds and rifle shooting for deer nearly six years ago. I would never go back to it.
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And tbh i dont miss it having used steel
All i dont like is the fact people are made to when there are far bigger issues out there and i worry about frying pan to fire and i wonder what issues steel and the wads will create in the future - sometimes better the devil you know ?
I've never used steel game loads or copper bullets yet but it looks like in the near future I will have to.
Question for those that have, will the switch to steel cartridges make the 20 bore a borderline choice for game shooting? Obviously discounting bismuth on cost.
Does anyone have experience of a 20 bore with steel on game?
I was planning another 20 bore for game and walked up just for fun but now I'm in two minds!
Also I remember a year or two back there was a UK company developing an alternative to lead for .22LR, which it looks like we don't have to worry about just now, but possibly another alternative for shotgun cartridges? Anyone remember the company name?
Question for those that have, will the switch to steel cartridges make the 20 bore a borderline choice for game shooting? Obviously discounting bismuth on cost.
Does anyone have experience of a 20 bore with steel on game?
I was planning another 20 bore for game and walked up just for fun but now I'm in two minds!
Also I remember a year or two back there was a UK company developing an alternative to lead for .22LR, which it looks like we don't have to worry about just now, but possibly another alternative for shotgun cartridges? Anyone remember the company name?
Well there's a view through rose tinted spectacles if ever there was one.
I found it, Horton Guns. "Hortonium", it's only expected to be 10% cheaper than Bismuth so a bit pricey. Perhaps it'll get cheaper in time.
20 bore steel loads are fine, there’s just less choice of brands at the moment. I’ll be using steel through my 2 1/2 inch 12 bore game gun this season and think nothing of it.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
You mean err like everything else hasn't!
that looks to have gone very quite, may be 10% cheaper than bismuth is just not enough to compete with steel shot.
In the USA and briefly in the U.K. nice shot, that’s what it was called was a direct non toxic replacement for lead shot but again looks to no longer be available in the u.k.
@Heym SR20
Not many, but a few Agri chems we use have what is called a “minimum grazing interval” some of these are known endocrine disruptors.
Funnily enough, deer don’t observe minimum grazing intervals, and could well be grazing treated crops within minutes of application. As these chemicals are known to be dangerous for consumption, we don’t actually know how much would be present in any meat or offal harvested from animals exposed to this.
The same goes for Forestery chemicals, industrial waste, road and ashphalt treatments and unclean water sources.
I’m not trying to be a scaremonger, I eat plenty of venison and enjoy it. But properly farmed pasture raised beef and lamb with all withdrawal periods observed, drinking only clean potable water and handled with care could very well be cleaner than wild game. How often have you seen pheasants or pigeons in a recently drilled field eating the unburied seed? Guess what, that dressing is not safe for consumption. I’ve personally seen barley treated with red Deter-x in a fallows stomach before it was banned.
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Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
Refb: Whilst you can still smoke in private you cannot smoke in any public area where others can inhale second hand smoke.No links to illness from lead?
Please can you then explain why new cancer treatments that involve removing lead and other heavy metals are showing such promising results in the likes acute myeloid leukaemia and small cell lung cancer, with first products receiving orphan drug status in the US earlier this year. This is a lot of new science and the work is ongoing.
In the meantime have a read of the following published by the Game Conservancy and in particular have a read of the papers cited.
Alternatively have a read of
Hunting with lead: Association between blood lead levels and wild game consumption
Wild game hunting is a popular activity in many regions of the United States. Recently, the presence of lead fragments in wild game meat, presumably f…
Shows that eating lead shot game results in a higher lead level in the blood compared to those who do not eat leadshot game.
Hunt et al. Demonstrated the bioavailability of ingested lead through studies in scientific pigs which have a very similar gut to humans and are used as a surrogate.
Lead Bullet Fragments in Venison from Rifle-Killed Deer: Potential for Human Dietary Exposure
Human consumers of wildlife killed with lead ammunition may be exposed to health risks associated with lead ingestion. This hypothesis is based on published studies showing elevated blood lead concentrations in subsistence hunter populations, retention of ammunition residues in the tissues of...
Finally the core research that was the fundamental springboard to the development of new Cancer therapies involving the removal of lead and other toxic metals.
You are fully free to think that lead ingestion is not harmful. Go back 30 to 40 years the same view was on tobacco. Whilst you can still smoke in private you cannot smoke in any public area where others can inhale second hand smoke.
With shooting, every time you fire a gun you are putting more lead into the environment, and in particular meat products destined for human consumption.
A cornerstone of shooting is that we are eating free range game free from toxic injections, chemicals etc. Yet it is being shot with a widely regarded as toxic substance necessitating major health warnings from healthcare and food standards professions. Doesn’t quite square.
I went down to our local pub last night and all the regulars on the "Stammtisch" where I sit go outside to smoke then come in and sit at the table the sour crap still being breathed out in the room beggars belief Ugh!!!
Why are they worthless??
Couple of our members are using 20s with steel to good effect
What are you talking about? The science doesn't actually support banning lead ammunition, although a few pseudo-scientists do support banning it.
I wonder if their ministers are into hunting more than ours
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