Pressure from different powders

Sniper308

Well-Known Member
I have done intensive reloading with my .223 using n135, slight pressure signs started showing at 24.3 of powder.
The trouble I found is I’m only getting 3100fps using. 24.1g n135

Ideally I’d like to get 3300-3400fps I have purchased some n133 but haven’t yet used it.
Even though the size of the powder is the same, I’m wondering if I “should” be able to use more powder without getting the pressure signs?
 
You don’t mention the bullet weight but in any event the Vihtavuori manual gives the best answers to your question.

In general, N133 is slightly faster burning than N135 so the likelihood is you’d end up using lighter charges with N133 to achieve similar velocities to N135.
Depending on the bullet weight N133 may be better suited (i.e. more efficient) than N135 & give higher velocities than N135 at the respective recommended maximum charge weights. The Vihtavuori load for the 50 grn ‘Sierra Spitzer’ bullet is an example of this.

If you are using relatively heavy for calibre bullets then N135 will be the more efficient.
 
I have done intensive reloading with my .223 using n135, slight pressure signs started showing at 24.3 of powder.
The trouble I found is I’m only getting 3100fps using. 24.1g n135

Ideally I’d like to get 3300-3400fps I have purchased some n133 but haven’t yet used it.
Even though the size of the powder is the same, I’m wondering if I “should” be able to use more powder without getting the pressure signs?
Extensive or Intensive?

Why chase 33-3400?
How does it shoot now?
You dont say anything about barrel length or bullet weight

You can run a faster powder but your pressure curve will be pulled to the left.
You will hit the same pressure with less powder and it will peak faster

Using more powder in a faster burning powder with everything else remaining constant will get you into “intensive” care…

Work up from scratch
Find an accurate load
Measure the velocity
Chasing MV without thought or fundamental knowledge on how the mass of propellant linked to burn rate and bullet weight is linked is futile
 
The Superformance 53g vmax is producing 3330fps. 22” barrel

Hornady 'Superformance' cartridges use specially blended and very high energy propellants to maximise MVs within allowed max SAAMI pressures. It is difficult, more likely impossible, to match their MVs with Viht single-based powders. N135 and N133 have nominal specific energy ratings of 3,550 and 3,600 Joules per gram weight which is relatively low compared to some. That's not to say don't try N133 as an alternative to 135 as it's better suited to this weight bullet in 223 Rem, and often groups tighter.

N100 Smokeless Powders | Reloading | Handloading | Single base Rifle powder - Vihtavuori

(Viht rates its N500 series 'high-energy' grades mostly at 4,000 J/g and other companies' equivalents are sometimes higher.)

Few rifles give their best at peak pressures and MVs. As @Edinburgh Rifles says go by how well the rifle groups (and if you have a chronograph what level of MV extreme spreads you get from a shot-string with the bullet / powder combination). The final few fps you might achieve are also disproportionately hard-wearing on the barrel throat and leade.

However, if you really must chase velocity at any cost, consider Reload Swiss RS40, the canister version of that RUAG loads in the Swiss military GP90 version of the 5.56X45mm NATO. RS data ..........

Rheinmetall

......... show a max charge of 25.3gn RS40 for 3,458 fps from the 52gn ELD-M in a 600mm barrel at a hefty 3,913 bar (56,753 psi) PMax. The same powder under the 52gn Sierra HPBT MatchKing is listed at an even higher 3,481 fps from 25.5gn RS40 at yet higher pressures (4,030 bar / 58,450 psi). Norma case and RWS #4033 SR primer in both loads.

Two caveats. One, as with other Nitrochemie RS 'EI' powders, RS40 is known for hammering barrels if loaded to maximum levels. Two, at chamber pressures above ~54/55,000 psi, many factory rifles produce severely cratered and/or 'blanked' (pierced) primers with this cartridge due to a slack firing tip fit in the bolt face.
 
I have done intensive reloading with my .223 using n135, slight pressure signs started showing at 24.3 of powder.
The trouble I found is I’m only getting 3100fps using. 24.1g n135

Ideally I’d like to get 3300-3400fps I have purchased some n133 but haven’t yet used it.
Even though the size of the powder is the same, I’m wondering if I “should” be able to use more powder without getting the pressure signs?
What are these slight pressure signs?
It is a pressure generating system so I would expect to see something! Often folk jump to the wrong fear based conclusion.
Oh and I load more than n135 in my 222 than you are in your 223!
 
What are these slight pressure signs?
It is a pressure generating system so I would expect to see something! Often folk jump to the wrong fear based conclusion.
Oh and I load more than n135 in my 222 than you are in your 223!
 

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Looks fine to me buddy.
Got any unloaded brass you can measure just ahead of the rim then measure a recently fired one, measure a few if you can and see how much the brass has grown in diameter.
 
That's not a pressure sign per se, but the combination of soft primer (?) and the problem Laurie mentioned, slack firing tip fit.

Your velocity is more or less in line with Vihtavuori data, so I don't think you're loading too close to lands (raises pressure) etc.

Still, you did good by not going higher in powder weight. It's not a nice occurence to have pierced primers, depending on situation it might throw all kind of gunk from the bolt to your face. And eat up the firing pin channel in bolt face in quite short order.

What primer are you using? Soft like CCI 400 is not really suitable for upper end loads in 223.
 
I'm getting 3145fps average with
53grn vmax & 24.5grn N133 in .223 with I think 20.5 " barrel
And it's cloverleafing holes
No pressure signs

Paul
 
N140 with 69TMK is v accurate out of my .223. You might need to use harder primers.
If you DM Laurie he might send you his excellent articles on reloading for .223.
D
 
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