PDS 1&2 now recognised

[co’den]

Are they not the lets say owners of DSC and farm it out to various providers BASC, BDS, NGO and other linked to organisations or companies who send it to them for marking/verification and then send out the certificate and badge?

If that’s your view of independent verification then that’s absolutely fine.
However, on the face of it, PDS is rebranded DSC course content. If it’s not, then how can it be equivalent to DSC? And, if it isn’t equivalent to DSC, is it lower or higher? Like I said before, as a consumer, which do I choose? The one that gives me £100 cashback or the one that’s been established 30 years plus?

 

[sikamalc]

Well I've seen people and had clients who passed this test and frankly had learnt nothing in the ONE day it was run.
Plus those running these courses are hardly what I would regard as experienced stalkers.

 

[jimmer.13]

I was lead to believe the course content is almost identical.
One is conducted in a classroom over a period of days and the other is modular done online as computer based training.
Each course has a practical shooting and safety test at the end.
The level 2 content is also very similar.
If both achieve the same aim and deliver the relevant information,surely it’s up to the consumer to decide which course works for them.
Experience I think is always an emotive subject in these debates.

 

[sikamalc]

I was lead to believe the course content is almost identical.
One is conducted in a classroom over a period of days and the other is modular done online as computer based training.
Each course has a practical shooting and safety test at the end.
The level 2 content is also very similar.
If both achieve the same aim and deliver the relevant information,surely it’s up to the consumer to decide which course works for them.
Experience I think is always an emotive subject in these debates.

Similar to the clients I had out with me sometime back, who produced his PDS cert in which it stated that the client had achieved an approximate 70% pass how do you work that one out then? He either passed or didn't. Followed by the complete lack of deer identification ability, which he was not given/taught. Minus £500 each for 3 candidates, £1500 for a DAY.
What a bloody joke it is.

 

[jimmer.13]

Similar to the clients I had out with me sometime back, who produced his PDS cert in which it stated that the client had achieved an approximate 70% pass how do you work that one out then? He either passed or didn't. Followed by the complete lack of deer identification ability, which he was not given/taught. Minus £500 each for 3 candidates, £1500 for a DAY.
What a bloody joke it is.

Is the day course the same as the PDS1 ?

 

[Flash42]

Biggest issue with pds1 is the online assessment has no way of preventing people from googling etc the answers. Kind of defeats the point of a test!

 

[Apthorpe]

Perhaps when you have a monopoly supplier complacency sets in with take it or leave it service and pricing?

You've got me worrying about the Civil Aviation Authority now....and......and...

 

[timbrayford]

You've got me worrying about the Civil Aviation Authority now....and......and...

I'd guess that the CAA is subject to a regulatory and inspection routine?

 

[sikamalc]

Is the day course the same as the PDS1 ?

It was a day for the clients I had with me.
DSC1 is a 3 day course.
Frankly this PDS is a bit of a joke in my opinion.

 

[jimmer.13]

It was a day for the clients I had with me.
DSC1 is a 3 day course.
Frankly this PDS is a bit of a joke in my opinion.

I thought there was something along the lines of an introductory day to deer stalking that gave you an attendance certificate similar to the one you have mentioned.
As I understand it
PDS 1 covers the same syllabus as DSC 1 but is remote training and modular testing on line.
I thought the idea was to allow people to learn at their own pace instead of being in a classroom for 3 days. Similar to the DSC 1 option of just turning up for the assessment.
I spoke to the training providers at both the BSS and the stalking show and that’s how they explained it.

My point being if the training is the same and the standards and knowledge required are equal, then does it really matter who provides it?

 

[co’den]

I thought there was something along the lines of an introductory day to deer stalking that gave you an attendance certificate similar to the one you have mentioned.
As I understand it
PDS 1 covers the same syllabus as DSC 1 but is remote training and modular testing on line.
I thought the idea was to allow people to learn at their own pace instead of being in a classroom for 3 days. Similar to the DSC 1 option of just turning up for the assessment.
I spoke to the training providers at both the BSS and the stalking show and that’s how they explained it.

My point being if the training is the same and the standards and knowledge required are equal, then does it really matter who provides it?

There’s a video on YouTube channel “hunter gatherer cooking” which gives an overview of the PDS1 online course from the candidate’s prospective. It looks like you could do the PDS1 online in a morning if you got your eyes down. The video has got the feel of a paid advert but take a look and see what you think.
I did the DSC1 recently and it was excellent. It was sat over 4 days with a recommendation to start studying the hefty course material at least 8 weeks in advance. I can’t see how the 2 courses can be equivalent.
If they both give the same result in allowing access to FLS contracts, trained hunter, fit and competent etc, I’d still choose the DSC as it seems much more comprehensive.

 

[Nickb]

There’s a video on YouTube channel “hunter gatherer cooking”

Another whalloper

 

[jimmer.13]

There’s a video on YouTube channel “hunter gatherer cooking” which gives an overview of the PDS1 online course from the candidate’s prospective. It looks like you could do the PDS1 online in a morning if you got your eyes down. The video has got the feel of a paid advert but take a look and see what you think.
I did the DSC1 recently and it was excellent. It was sat over 4 days with a recommendation to start studying the hefty course material at least 8 weeks in advance. I can’t see how the 2 courses can be equivalent.
If they both give the same result in allowing access to FLS contracts, trained hunter, fit and competent etc, I’d still choose the DSC as it seems much more comprehensive.

Just being the Devils advocate though.
If you were of the same sort of mindset and have the learning ability, you could revise the DSC1 question bank and cram the pre reading a day or so before the assessment and be done and dusted in a morning.
When the meat hygiene course first appeared a morning in a classroom then a tick test and done.
Thoroughly enjoyed all my DSC courses although did them late on in my career but there is always something new to learn.
I’ve met quite a few PDS 1 stalkers and all appear to have been as equally competent as DSC.
When asked why they went down the PDS route, the majority said it was due to lack of DSC course availability and time constraints with family work etc.
Factor in travel and accommodation for them it was a better option.
Not picking a side over which is better, I’m more supportive of introducing people to stalking

 

[Nickb]

I’ve met quite a few PDS 1 stalkers and all appear to have been as equally competent as DSC.

Having these certs doesn't make anyone competent , its experience in the field that counts.

 

[jimmer.13]

Having these certs doesn't make anyone competent , its experience in the field that counts.

Couldn’t agree more

I Like many others back in the day required a couple of references and land authority and you were away.
It’s challenging enough for some to secure an outing these days, hats off to all those starting out on their stalking journey.
These courses seem to show commitment of the individual and point them in the right direction.

 

[co’den]

Just being the Devils advocate though.
If you were of the same sort of mindset and have the learning ability, you could revise the DSC1 question bank and cram the pre reading a day or so before the assessment and be done and dusted in a morning.
When the meat hygiene course first appeared a morning in a classroom then a tick test and done.
Thoroughly enjoyed all my DSC courses although did them late on in my career but there is always something new to learn.
I’ve met quite a few PDS 1 stalkers and all appear to have been as equally competent as DSC.
When asked why they went down the PDS route, the majority said it was due to lack of DSC course availability and time constraints with family work etc.
Factor in travel and accommodation for them it was a better option.
Not picking a side over which is better, I’m more supportive of introducing people to stalking

All good points, particularly the course availability. But, for me, it still doesn’t explain why we need two supposedly identical but different qualifications running in parallel. Why not one good one consistently delivered by multiple suppliers? Maybe I’m just stuck on the logic.
On the other hand, while there is no legal requirement and folk just want a bit of theory before starting out, I don’t suppose it matters.

 

[jimmer.13]

All good points, particularly the course availability. But, for me, it still doesn’t explain why we need two supposedly identical but different qualifications running in parallel. Why not one good one consistently delivered by multiple suppliers? Maybe I’m just stuck on the logic.
On the other hand, while there is no legal requirement and folk just want a bit of theory before starting out, I don’t suppose it matters.

Personally I think there was a gap in the market and the opportunity to utilise free market capitalism in this case, has so far been successful.
With the right backing and support I wouldn’t be surprised to see more of the same in the future.

 

[co’den]

Personally I think there was a gap in the market and the opportunity to utilise free market capitalism has so far been successful.
With the right backing and support I wouldn’t be surprised to see more of the same in the future.

Oh, I don’t know. I think there’s a good chance training will become mandatory, in which case regulation will follow.
If you think about it, there was once a time you didn’t need a driving licence to drive a car.

 

[Dickie]

If that’s your view of independent verification then that’s absolutely fine.
However, on the face of it, PDS is rebranded DSC course content. If it’s not, then how can it be equivalent to DSC? And, if it isn’t equivalent to DSC, is it lower or higher? Like I said before, as a consumer, which do I choose? The one that gives me £100 cashback or the one that’s been established 30 years plus?

That’s my point it’s not independent you said it was.
It doesn’t matter if it’s rebranded or made up fresh. It’s now recognised by organisations that previously only recognised DSC so people have a choice if one is nearer your home than the other or a dates which suit then you go with whichever works for you and you’ll still be able to join a syndicate or club or deer group who are managing deer on land owned by organisations that previously only recognised DSC because now they recognise both.

 

[co’den]

That’s my point it’s not independent you said it was.
It doesn’t matter if it’s rebranded or made up fresh. It’s now recognised by organisations that previously only recognised DSC so people have a choice if one is nearer your home than the other or a dates which suit then you go with whichever works for you and you’ll still be able to join a syndicate or club or deer group who are managing deer on land owned by organisations that previously only recognised DSC because now they recognise both.

My DSC trainer told me it’s independent and I’ve no reason to disbelieve him. Actually, I think he said externally verified which amounts to the same thing.
It probably does matter if it’s rebranded, not to me but potentially to the owners of the intellectual property.
The rest of what you said is great news for those that benefit, but it’s not for me.