Threatened ban on driven grouse shooting

A government response has been given to the petition as follows:

The Government has no plans to ban driven grouse shooting. It recognises well-managed grouse shooting can be an important part of a local rural economy, providing direct and indirect employment.

This is a devolved matter. The Government appreciates that many people hold strong views on the issue of driven grouse shooting. The Government considers that well-managed shooting activities can bring benefits to the rural economy and can be beneficial for wildlife and habitat conservation. We will continue work to ensure a sustainable, mutually beneficial relationship between shooting and conservation. The Government has no plans to ban grouse shooting.

It is of course vital that wildlife and habitats are protected and the law is respected by those involved in the grouse shooting industry. Wild birds of prey, for example, are protected under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. There is evidence from Ewing et al (2023) and others to suggest a link between crimes against birds of prey and grouse shooting. The Government supports the National Wildlife Crime Unit (NWCU) – which helps prevent and detect crimes against wildlife by obtaining and disseminating intelligence and directly assisting law enforcers in their investigations – and the Hen Harrier Task Force – which is led by the NWCU and aims to detect, deter, and disrupt offenders, in particular those persecuting rare hen harriers – by using technology and improving partnership working. Where wild birds of prey or any non-target species of wildlife are killed illegally the full force of the law should apply to proven perpetrators of the crime. All forms of predator management to protect grouse must be undertaken within the law, including compliance with animal welfare legislation.

Grouse shooting takes place in upland areas, which are important for a range of things including, food, fibre, water regulation, carbon storage, biodiversity and recreational opportunities. UK uplands have 75 per cent of the world’s remaining heather moorland and about 13 per cent of the world’s blanket bog.

Upland catchments provide 70 per cent of the UK’s drinking water. The Government is committed to delivering positive environmental and economic benefits and creating a more sustainable future for the English uplands, including preserving and restoring peatlands.

Healthy, active peat provides good habitat for grouse as well as numerous environmental benefits. Through the Nature for Climate Peatland Grant Scheme, the Government is continuing to invest millions of pounds in peatland restoration, to aid climate change mitigation and nature recovery. The Government’s new and improved Countryside Stewardship offer will be available this summer. This scheme will encourage land managers to enter into agreements to enhance and protect the natural environment, including upland peatland habitats.


 
Perhaps someone could start a petition calling for driven grouse shooting to continue, and see which one gets the most signatures.
 
Perhaps someone could start a petition calling for driven grouse shooting to continue, and see which one gets the most signatures.
Not sure about that. BASC and other organisations pushed this petition hard - a unity campaign by Firearms-UK and collectively as a community we couldn't even hit the 25K mark.

 
Not sure about that. BASC and other organisations pushed this petition hard - a unity campaign by Firearms-UK and collectively as a community we couldn't even hit the 25K mark.


Great news regarding Grouse !

Dont be so negative on setting a petition up Conor - i think lots of people have had enough and will sign

The one you quote was very niche and over 10 years ago ?
 
Not sure about that. BASC and other organisations pushed this petition hard - a unity campaign by Firearms-UK and collectively as a community we couldn't even hit the 25K mark.

I think the news media had a lot to answer for on this. In the run-up to the Commons vote, all you were shown was cammo clad rambos blazing away at charging man targets with full-bore pistols and revolvers. Within minutes of the vote, the first clip was of someone with .22 target pistol in civvy clothing.
 
Dont be so negative on setting a petition up Conor - i think lots of people have had enough and will sign

The one you quote was very niche and over 10 years ago ?

Perhaps less negative and more realistic based on experience of campaigns in the shooting sector.

And you perhaps inadvertently raise a pertinent point - you regard the lifting of some restrictions for target pistol shooting as 'niche' - albeit there were arguably more participants in that shooting discipline at one time than people currently partaking in grouse shooting - and a petition on grouse shooting would perhaps be regarded as 'niche' by most other live quarry shooters let alone target shooters.

Plus add general apathy into the mix.

All things considered I think it would be counterproductive to start and promote such a petition on this topic. Rather that many of us continue to contact our MPs as per the BASC call to action.


Let the antis carry on with their petition and it may hit 100K and the debate may then happen at some point whilst this government is in power. The government has made its position clear from the 10K mark.

Here is BASC's response to that:


The antis will be spitting feathers on the government response.

And if the petition hits 100K and the debate takes place we can all help ensure that the MPs attending that debate reflect the evidence over the rhetoric. BASC will continue to encourage this engagement with MPs.

There was a lack of support from MPs in a Westminster debate on a similar 2016 petition initiated by Mark Avery, three years before the birth of Wild Justice.

In 2021, during a Westminster debate on a similarly worded Wild Justice petition, there was a lack of support from MPs that “there is clearly not support in this House for the petition”.

And here we are again for a third time with calls to ban grouse shooting based on the same old nonsense that “grouse shooting is bad for people, the environment and wildlife”.
 
I think the news media had a lot to answer for on this. In the run-up to the Commons vote, all you were shown was cammo clad rambos blazing away at charging man targets with full-bore pistols and revolvers. Within minutes of the vote, the first clip was of someone with .22 target pistol in civvy clothing.
Why did target shooters in 2014/15 not support this petition enmasse?
 
use to shoot a lot of pistol and it was very popular as the annual event at Bisley used to show.

I think given how long ago the ban was most who have now come in to shooting over the last ten years have no idea of or first hand experience of what they are missing so just did not vote. Plus how many clubs remain that can shoot .22 pistols, gone are the days of practical pistol.
 
I can't remember seeing anything about it!
A very good point. It was on this forum. Tumbleweeds. Most gunshops, clay grounds, rifle ranges etc did not promote that petition with posters and/or word of mouth evidently. They were contacted.

On the other hand look at the energy that goes into anti-BASC comments and spreading misinformation about BASC on pistol shooting and lead ammunition. Perhaps consider your own role in this - continually resurrecting who said what at some conference in Cheltenham eons ago.

Look at how £400 firearms licensing fees fed its way from a Telegraph article into every part of shooting press, forums and social media.

Let's stop spreading the negativity and promote some UNITY. That was the point of the Firearms-UK UNITY campaign in 2014/15 that BASC and the other shooting orgs promoted getting behind pistol shooters.
 
Perhaps less negative and more realistic based on experience of campaigns in the shooting sector.

And you perhaps inadvertently raise a pertinent point - you regard the lifting of some restrictions for target pistol shooting as 'niche' - albeit there were arguably more participants in that shooting discipline at one time than people currently partaking in grouse shooting - and a petition on grouse shooting would perhaps be regarded as 'niche' by most other live quarry shooters let alone target shooters.

Plus add general apathy into the mix.

All things considered I think it would be counterproductive to start and promote such a petition on this topic. Rather that many of us continue to contact our MPs as per the BASC call to action.


Let the antis carry on with their petition and it may hit 100K and the debate may then happen at some point whilst this government is in power. The government has made its position clear from the 10K mark.

Here is BASC's response to that:


The antis will be spitting feathers on the government response.

And if the petition hits 100K and the debate takes place we can all help ensure that the MPs attending that debate reflect the evidence over the rhetoric. BASC will continue to encourage this engagement with MPs.

There was a lack of support from MPs in a Westminster debate on a similar 2016 petition initiated by Mark Avery, three years before the birth of Wild Justice.

In 2021, during a Westminster debate on a similarly worded Wild Justice petition, there was a lack of support from MPs that “there is clearly not support in this House for the petition”.

And here we are again for a third time with calls to ban grouse shooting based on the same old nonsense that “grouse shooting is bad for people, the environment and wildlife”.
I have downloaded your flyer and sent it to my Newton Abbot MP.
I don`t have first hand experience of the difference between moorland managed for driven grouse shooting compared to those managed by the RSPB, but a good friend who is a licensed ringer for the BTO has seen with his own eyes on numerous occasions the difference. It will be a sad day for our upland nesting waders, songbirds and raptors if it is left to the likes of the RSPB.
 
A very good point. It was on this forum. Tumbleweeds. Most gunshops, clay grounds, rifle ranges etc did not promote that petition with posters and/or word of mouth evidently. They were contacted.

On the other hand look at the energy that goes into anti-BASC comments and spreading misinformation about BASC on pistol shooting and lead ammunition. Perhaps consider your own role in this - continually resurrecting who said what at some conference in Cheltenham eons ago.

Look at how £400 firearms licensing fees fed its way from a Telegraph article into every part of shooting press, forums and social media.

Let's stop spreading the negativity and promote some UNITY. That was the point of the Firearms-UK UNITY campaign in 2014/15 that BASC and the other shooting orgs promoted getting behind pistol shooters.

The pistol thing is over and done with - it was 10 years ago

The grouse debate is still very much live and with the countryside being attacked as it is at the minute i strongly believe people would get behind a petition
 
It's a fact that "keyboard clicks" and popularity ratings shape government action. The antis will go into overdrive and keep pushing. I fear that gradually, that will work, unless the cumulative clicks and lobbying of opposition (ours) lead the Government to fear the weight of all country pursuits participants.

I think it's a "given" that trail hunting will go this year. Anti organisations and the likes of the RSPB and RSPCA pay their staff well and fight for supporters' revenue. Once trail hunting's gone, game shooting's next, then recreational live animal shooting (of all types), then angling, then clay shooting and on, and on. And once their gone, it will be almost impossible for a more understanding (Conservative) Government to re-introduce.

I wrote to my MP after the first post but haven't heard back. So, I'm writing again. I'm getting behind other campaigns. Will it work - I hope so. Whatever, I'd like to look back and say "better to have tried and failed...... We need a more joined up approach.
 
Getting an anti shooting agenda out in the public is easy and probably free as it makes good TV like Packham etc getting pro gun shooting out in the public via TV or etc is virtually a no no.

May be we should focus more on good work shooting delivers via conservation e.g helping save red squirrels and less on the actual shooting, killing. Somehow we need to get non shooting public onside, most I talk to who do not shoot have little opion on gun ownership other than what they see in films and news.

Not easy I know, but we for the majority of the time keep all the good work shooting delivers within the shooting community.
 
Lets not forget that driven grouse moors are massive carbon sinks and hold a huge amount of water. Upland bogs and moors probably capture more carbon than any forestry on a per square metre basis.

Planting trees or windmills ruins the bogs. In particular windmills require large amounts of drainage around all the massive concrete footings. All the drained water goes straight down into the river system and floods urban areas.

Grouse moors are a wonderful economic way of preserving large tracts of land and keeping all the water and carbon in the upland areas. They provide a sustainable source of income to many.
 
The Government has no plans to ban driven grouse shooting. It recognises well-managed grouse shooting can be an important part of a local rural economy, providing direct and indirect employment.

Well that just shows that on that issue you simply can't trust Labour with shooting sports.

I am just very very sorry that we've ended up with Starmer as Prime Minister (or his "mate" David Lammy whose father made a living as a taxidermist) instead of the great Boris Johnson...and his lovely wife Carrie Antoinette.

You certainly knew where you stood with them. Or their chum Lord Zac Goldsmith. They didn't have any "truck" with these anti-shooting and ban trophy hunting Wild Justice types I can tell you. Blather, blather, blather..

And yet there's some who would want Johnson and his cabal back leading the Tories and wishing him back in charge in Downing Street?

Meanwhile I'll just leave this here while I go and get my coat. For those that have handy access to a sick bag there's a video to watch. Here's a quote from the lovely Carrie just to get the taste of it:


'A trophy is meant to be a prize, something you're awarded if you've achieved something of merit that requires great skill and talent.

'Trophy hunting is not that, it is the opposite of that. It is cruel, it is sick, it is cowardly and I will never, ever understand the motivation to do it.'


 
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