Government responds to 2023 firearms licensing consultation

[Rake Aboot]

Just catching up on this thread

Why the hell would I want to joint a shooting club ??? God no.

It’s about time the public had it rammed down their throats that people own guns and it’s perfectly acceptable.

 

[Liveonce]

The Home Office argues that this power would only be used where there are grounds for reviewing suitability and the certificate holder is uncooperative. That is an inadequate safeguard and BASC is considering the case for legal action under civil rights law should any legislation be tabled.

We would have less rights then a drug dealer or any criminal for that matter.

Just beyond belief that the HO year-on-year want to add more and more restrictions and hurdles to jump through which do nothing in reality to improve public safety, They will only be happy when nobody thinks the effort to own guns is worth the trouble of doing so. Let’s just keep reminding everybody Keyham happened because the Police did not do their job properly, simple as that.

 

[Liveonce]

Not just us

Police will be given new powers targeting anti-social behaviour and be allowed to search homes for stolen mobile phones without a warrant under major legislation to be unveiled in Parliament.

Phone thieves and anti-social behaviour targeted in crime bill

The Crime and Policing Bill will give officers powers to make Britain's cities safer, the home secretary says.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Smellydog]

The police state has finally arrived. The natural progression on from nannyism.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

BASC update in today's Shooting Times:

Home Office set for firearms shake-up

Home Office set for firearms shake-up - Shooting UK

Right after its firearms fees hike, the Home Office announces a series of proposals for licensing. Conor O’Gorman reviews what’s ahead On 13 February the Home Office announced that it would be launching a consultation this year on “aligning the controls on shotguns with other firearms”. This...

www.shootinguk.co.uk

"With these announcements the Home Office has thrown down the gauntlet to recreational shooting and rural communities. We have faced worse challenges than this and there is plenty to be positive about — shooting is thriving — but the excuses for apathy and division are running out.

With that in mind there are some things we can each do. Join BASC, or if you are already a member, encourage others to do so and support BASC’s campaigns against these ill-advised decisions and proposals".

 

[finnbear270]

Dear Steven,



Thank you for your emails.



I am aware that the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) has raised concerns about the increase in fees. However, it is important to note that firearms licensing fees were last updated ten years ago. Since then, they have been significantly lower than the actual cost of providing the service.



I believe a more effective and efficient firearms licensing system is long overdue. This increase in fees will help make the system more efficient and effective, and ensure that police forces can fully cover the costs of processing firearm license applications.



I would like to reassure you that this decision was not taken lightly. It follows an impact assessment which reviewed a wide range of evidence, looking at the number of businesses, individuals and police in England, Scotland and Wales that would be affected by updating fees for firearm or shotgun licences. The Home Office also held discussions on the fee increase with several key organisations at the Firearms Fees Working Group in 2022 and 2023. I understand the Policing Minister also met with BASC in January this year.



I understand there have been concerns raised about delays in firearms licensing by organisations like BASC, as these delays can often last for several months or years. I am therefore glad the Government has confirmed that this rise in fees will support applicants to receive a more professional service, and to help put stronger safeguards in place to protect the public from the misuse of licensed firearms.



The Government has also provided reassurance that it has had contact with Police and Crime Commissioners and Chief Constables, clarifying that the income from increased fees must be used to support improvements in the service provided by their firearms licensing teams.



Please be assured that I will continue to support efforts to ensure that the framework for firearms licensing controls is under constant review.



Thank you again for contacting me about this issue.



Best wishes,







Becky Gittins MP

Member of Parliament for Clwyd East

Aelod Seneddol dros Ddwyrain Clwyd



House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA

becky.gittins.mp@parliament.uk

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Dear Steven,



Thank you for your emails.



I am aware that the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC) has raised concerns about the increase in fees. However, it is important to note that firearms licensing fees were last updated ten years ago. Since then, they have been significantly lower than the actual cost of providing the service.



I believe a more effective and efficient firearms licensing system is long overdue. This increase in fees will help make the system more efficient and effective, and ensure that police forces can fully cover the costs of processing firearm license applications.



I would like to reassure you that this decision was not taken lightly. It follows an impact assessment which reviewed a wide range of evidence, looking at the number of businesses, individuals and police in England, Scotland and Wales that would be affected by updating fees for firearm or shotgun licences. The Home Office also held discussions on the fee increase with several key organisations at the Firearms Fees Working Group in 2022 and 2023. I understand the Policing Minister also met with BASC in January this year.



I understand there have been concerns raised about delays in firearms licensing by organisations like BASC, as these delays can often last for several months or years. I am therefore glad the Government has confirmed that this rise in fees will support applicants to receive a more professional service, and to help put stronger safeguards in place to protect the public from the misuse of licensed firearms.



The Government has also provided reassurance that it has had contact with Police and Crime Commissioners and Chief Constables, clarifying that the income from increased fees must be used to support improvements in the service provided by their firearms licensing teams.



Please be assured that I will continue to support efforts to ensure that the framework for firearms licensing controls is under constant review.



Thank you again for contacting me about this issue.



Best wishes,







Becky Gittins MP

Member of Parliament for Clwyd East

Aelod Seneddol dros Ddwyrain Clwyd



House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA

becky.gittins.mp@parliament.uk

Thanks, I will pass that onto our political team.

 

[finnbear270]

I replied directly, How about a whisper in Kier's ear over moderators and the instant win factor of.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I replied directly, How about a whisper in Kier's ear over moderators and the instant win factor of.

Thanks. Yes, that is still very much on our radar on the lobbying front.

 

[finnbear270]

Thanks. Yes, that is still very much on our radar on the lobbying front.

Wonder if she'll pick up on it?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I have asked the firearms team for an explanation on this from what stems from firearms legislation for that terminology - but logically bullets fired from a rifle are capable of being lethal at longer distances than pellets from a shotgun. However, I will come back on that one.

Feedback as follows. Power is an inaccurate shorthand used for muzzle energy. A 12 bore shotgun has in excess of 1,000 foot pounds of ME buts its pellets are unlikely to be lethal to humans at ranges of more than 40 yards. A .22 rifle has a muzzle energy of about 100 ft lb but its bullet is dangerous at half a mile.
Perhaps if we used the words that “sporting rifles have the capability to injure at greater ranges than shotguns hence the more stringent controls” that would explain the two regimes.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Wonder if she'll pick up on it?

We will keep trying until its actioned.

 

[charlie222]

@Conor O'Gorman Rather than engage with the argument for equivalent checks for shotgun certs, why not just reassert the fact that legally held licensed firearms are of no risk to the public. The problem is illegally held guns, there are stats available to prove it. It seems to me in society today there are many minority groups getting the ear of politicians. They achieve it by shouting a simple message VERY loudly. Its not my idea of democracy but it looks like it works.

 

[Dunwaters]

Feedback as follows. Power is an inaccurate shorthand used for muzzle energy. A 12 bore shotgun has in excess of 1,000 foot pounds of ME buts its pellets are unlikely to be lethal to humans at ranges of more than 40 yards. A .22 rifle has a muzzle energy of about 100 ft lb but its bullet is dangerous at half a mile.
Perhaps if we used the words that “sporting rifles have the capability to injure at greater ranges than shotguns hence the more stringent controls” that would explain the two regimes.

Jesus love you.
You must have done something truly horrible in a previous existence.
Trying to argue that shotguns are not actually firearms is going to make your struggles with the Scottish Assembly over BOP and your attempts to defend the use of lead seem like a walk in the park in comparison.
Historically the case was made because shotguns are not suited to offensive use in a military operation and because many families collected most of their protein with one.
I don’t think that either argument will fly nowadays.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

@Conor O'Gorman Rather than engage with the argument for equivalent checks for shotgun certs, why not just reassert the fact that legally held licensed firearms are of no risk to the public. The problem is illegally held guns, there are stats available to prove it. It seems to me in society today there are many minority groups getting the ear of politicians. They achieve it by shouting a simple message VERY loudly. Its not my idea of democracy but it looks like it works.

Thanks, if a consultation launches on this, let's see what that says, and the loud voice we need is 600K cert holders engaging in that. So hopefully you will be able to spread the word with all your contacts if the time comes.

 

[charlie222]

@Conor O'Gorman This government is hell bent on removing the public ownership of guns. They ignore crime stats, they ignore consultation results and do as they please. I'm a BASC member and would like to see them and all the other shooting organizations getting on the front foot not waiting for the next consultation to chip away at us. Maybe It's time for a change of strategy?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

@Conor O'Gorman This government is hell bent on removing the public ownership of guns. They ignore crime stats, they ignore consultation results and do as they please. I'm a BASC member and would like to see them and all the other shooting organizations getting on the front foot not waiting for the next consultation to chip away at us. Maybe It's time for a change of strategy?

BASC has been on the front foot on all these issues - briefing MPs and ministers. We have also been looking at legal options for some of the proposals/decisions announced.

 

[charlie222]

@Conor O'Gorman I appreciate the BASC is looking at these issues, and they have some great initiatives, such as training police firearms personnel, and suggestions around more efficient licensing, there's lots of good stuff happening thats why I'm a member.
I see a house of commons full of labour MP's with not the slightest interest in BASC or another organizations protestations. Perhaps we are at a stage where we'll not have anything like enough influence over the majority of MP's.
What will influence MPs is the general mood of voters, most of which will be on the fence regarding firearms ownership.
A simple PR campaign in the media with some eye catching stats- 'your more likely to be struck by lightning in the uk than be killed by a firearm' ' the percentage of licensed firearms(im unsure of the figure but its tiny) within firearms offense stats'.
MPs can then answer to their constituents as wether they think consultations on already adequate firearms laws represent good value to the tax payer.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

@Conor O'Gorman I appreciate the BASC is looking at these issues, and they have some great initiatives, such as training police firearms personnel, and suggestions around more efficient licensing, there's lots of good stuff happening thats why I'm a member.
I see a house of commons full of labour MP's with not the slightest interest in BASC or another organizations protestations. Perhaps we are at a stage where we'll not have anything like enough influence over the majority of MP's.
What will influence MPs is the general mood of voters, most of which will be on the fence regarding firearms ownership.
A simple PR campaign in the media with some eye catching stats- 'your more likely to be struck by lightning in the uk than be killed by a firearm' ' the percentage of licensed firearms(im unsure of the figure but its tiny) within firearms offense stats'.
MPs can then answer to their constituents as wether they think consultations on already adequate firearms laws represent good value to the tax payer.

Thanks for your support. Lots of people have been rallying to the cause contacting their MPs about ringfencing firearms licensing fees. That is the main campaign currently. Labour MPs are quoting BASC in their letters of reply. There are questions being asked in Parliament about this. We have the ear of many rural Labour MPs. We have support from MPs in all the other parties.

As regards PR campaigns yes these will be considered as regards timing and content. We ran adverts in the Metro from fighting funds last year before the general election on the Value of Shooting:

Value of Shooting Metro ad makes tracks across the UK

With a circulation of 1 million, the Metro advert will reach people in areas of the UK who may not be familiar with the benefits of shooting.

basc.org.uk