Do you really think that necessary, how many accidents are there every year? I know we possibly only hear of the rare very serious ones. Courses do not necessarily make anyone any safer, take the driving test for example it has not stopped accidents happing.
Norfolk FLD 'Safe shooter assessment'
- Thread starter Dagless
- Start date
Do you really think that necessary, how many accidents are there every year? I know we possibly only hear of the rare very serious ones. Courses do not necessarily make anyone any safer, take the driving test for example it has not stopped accidents happing.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
I do think it is necessary to have good training in safe use of firearms. Having a level standard that every one knows and understands would set a level playing field.
And with many coming into shooting with no prior experience, nor a family tradition of shooting, good training makes it available to all.
As for your comments re driving tests, imagine the utter carnage that would result if there was not a pretty tough driving test that is mandatory to get your licence. I have lived in parts of Africa where there was no real driving test and crashes were absolutely horrendous and frequent.
I offered to mentor a colleague (who has shot with me for a few years under the estate rule, has an FAC, and is a member of my club. Avon and Somerset’s response was they do not accept mentoring, however they would accept a safe shooter course run by a Bristol RFD.
Load of tosh!!
63
Well-Known Member
Given the choice, I’d rather a course than a mentoring condition. A mentoring condition relies on the new shooter being able to find an appropriate mentor. At least with a course anyone can access it irrespective of background and social circle.
I’ve not really given it a lot of thought, but I can see the merit in a baseline hunter education course as per many European countries. At least then you could ‘just do it’ and be qualified rather than having to constantly argue the toss with FEOs
I’ve not really given it a lot of thought, but I can see the merit in a baseline hunter education course as per many European countries. At least then you could ‘just do it’ and be qualified rather than having to constantly argue the toss with FEOs
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
With respect Clay Shooting and Home Office approved rifle clubs really have very little cross over to what happens in the field.
As I have said already we need a good training that is recognised by the powers that be to be of good quality and a good standard. Many other countries have such. The one I am familiar with is the German Jagshein. This is a right of passage for any novice hunter, you learn a huge amount, both theoretically and in the field. The training is provided by experienced hunters abd hunting associations, but the Jagschein hunting licence is an official Government Document, and gives you the freedom to own and use in the field hunting rifles, shotguns and pistols, with little restrictions on numbers of guns etc. only real restriction is a max of two pistols which are used for dispatch purposes.
In the UK we do the DSC 1 and 2. I did mine 20 odd years ago now. The DSC 1 was several days in the class room and on the range with very good instructors. DSC2 was three complete culls. Nowadays it has been much watered down.
In the UK we have little consistency in what is required and who gets an FAC or SC.
This is an area that the shooting organisations need to really get hold of. We have a good system in Home Office Clubs with a core syllabus from the NRA and an understanding from Police and Home office that there is a good standard - to get an FAC for Target Shooting you need your club chairman or senior official to act as a referee.
In the old days a referee for a SC or FAC had to be a person of good standing, and they had to complete a detailed form which they signed. Nowadays its any tom, dick or harry and you just get a phone call, which may or may not include a series of questions from an FEO.
With a mandatory training and testing we would have a clear standard that we have to reach before we hold a certificate and use firearms. It would also give the general public, and other shooters a level of comfort and reassurance.
I think we all have had experiences in the field where we have seen individuals who really shouldn’t be anywhere near a gun. Admittedly in my experience this has been more in game shooting, but I have spent enough time looking down the muzzle of a loaded rifle slung over the shoulder of a so called “guide” that I pretty much just stick to shooting with those whom I know well.
“With respect Clay Shooting and Home Office approved rifle clubs really have very little cross over to what happens in the field.”.
Actually there is a lot of cross over, especially with regards to safety, being around in close proximity lots of other people, practice and proficiency with the firearm, with plenty of opportunity to use the firearm and test ammunition.
The police look to be removing “practice” from FAC for live quarry only FACs leaving just zeroing which they say is two or three rounds. You cannot target shoot with that restriction. A field shooter is not as you look to suggest an elite owner of firearms.
It’s not just about training it’s about experience.
so if every hunter had to belong to a HO approved club for target shooting they would by your own admission get training and experience. The same could be achieved via clay clubs.
“In the UK we have little consistency in what is required and who gets an FAC or SC.”
That’s not our’s or a shooting organisation decision to make that is the decision of the Police and should ensure consistency via the firearms laws.
“I think we all have had experiences in the field where we have seen individuals who really shouldn’t be anywhere near a gun. Admittedly in my experience this has been more in game shooting, but I have spent enough time looking down the muzzle of a loaded rifle slung over the shoulder of a so called “guide” that I pretty much just stick to shooting with those whom I know well.”
You of course approached all the individuals and called them out for their poor gun handling, did you not?
Lots of individuals behind the wheel of a vehicle who really shouldn’t be anywhere near a vehicle and they have passed a skill test, i.e the driving test.
I would be careful what you wish for.
Actually there is a lot of cross over, especially with regards to safety, being around in close proximity lots of other people, practice and proficiency with the firearm, with plenty of opportunity to use the firearm and test ammunition.
The police look to be removing “practice” from FAC for live quarry only FACs leaving just zeroing which they say is two or three rounds. You cannot target shoot with that restriction. A field shooter is not as you look to suggest an elite owner of firearms.
It’s not just about training it’s about experience.
so if every hunter had to belong to a HO approved club for target shooting they would by your own admission get training and experience. The same could be achieved via clay clubs.
“In the UK we have little consistency in what is required and who gets an FAC or SC.”
That’s not our’s or a shooting organisation decision to make that is the decision of the Police and should ensure consistency via the firearms laws.
“I think we all have had experiences in the field where we have seen individuals who really shouldn’t be anywhere near a gun. Admittedly in my experience this has been more in game shooting, but I have spent enough time looking down the muzzle of a loaded rifle slung over the shoulder of a so called “guide” that I pretty much just stick to shooting with those whom I know well.”
You of course approached all the individuals and called them out for their poor gun handling, did you not?
Lots of individuals behind the wheel of a vehicle who really shouldn’t be anywhere near a vehicle and they have passed a skill test, i.e the driving test.
I would be careful what you wish for.
I've just come across this thread. It seems to have gone off on a tangent early on, likely because the OP hadn’t received—or provided?—a clear brief on the purpose of the visit. As this visit appears to have been about consolidating multiple land-clearance efforts into a single shooter-safety assessment—one that, if satisfactory, would lead to a ticket for an experienced shooter—I don’t see much cause for complaint. The FLD reduces demand on its resources, and the shooter gains greater freedom of access.
I had a similar meeting years ago under WMP. It was a positive and productive experience—a good return on a small investment of time. Not only did it open my ticket, but it also gave me the opportunity to meet a member of the FLD in person, so neither of us remained faceless to the other.
On the matter of training, if I were in an FLO’s shoes, I’d see a prospective certificate holder undertaking firearms safety training on their own initiative as a sign of a responsible attitude. Conversely, an applicant unwilling to do so would raise some red flags. This is, de facto, mandatory training—albeit in its softest form.
As for introducing a single mandatory training standard for hunters, I support the idea in principle. However, given the deep mistrust between UK shooters and the government, I suspect most would be wary of backing such a proposal. Even amid the current international vogue among turkeys to vote enthusiastically for Christmas, many would fear that any new system could become yet another tool for restricting shooting—already under pressure on multiple fronts.
The recent disconnect between public statements, legislative procedure, and practical reality regarding "full cost recovery" does little to ease such concerns.
I had a similar meeting years ago under WMP. It was a positive and productive experience—a good return on a small investment of time. Not only did it open my ticket, but it also gave me the opportunity to meet a member of the FLD in person, so neither of us remained faceless to the other.
On the matter of training, if I were in an FLO’s shoes, I’d see a prospective certificate holder undertaking firearms safety training on their own initiative as a sign of a responsible attitude. Conversely, an applicant unwilling to do so would raise some red flags. This is, de facto, mandatory training—albeit in its softest form.
As for introducing a single mandatory training standard for hunters, I support the idea in principle. However, given the deep mistrust between UK shooters and the government, I suspect most would be wary of backing such a proposal. Even amid the current international vogue among turkeys to vote enthusiastically for Christmas, many would fear that any new system could become yet another tool for restricting shooting—already under pressure on multiple fronts.
The recent disconnect between public statements, legislative procedure, and practical reality regarding "full cost recovery" does little to ease such concerns.
Rafter
Well-Known Member
Or, you can look at the actual figures and make a more accurate comment. 190,000 -200,000 hunters or thereabouts, year round hunting, most hunters getting out at least monthly and an average of around 1,000 severe accidents a year, two of which will be shootings - and 25% or so of the shootings are own goals. Nearly all of the accident are topographical are in nature - most years more hunters drown crossing rivers than in shootings, and the same for falling off (and down) hills.
Most of the shooting fatalities seem to be unlicensed gun owners, or from memory so the last few have been - with a preponderance of spotlighting and thermal hunting foulups. Duck shooting used to be a big drunken weekend binge, and had the expected results, but lately that has died down and (once angin) from memory most of those shootings are someone standing up in front of his mate swinging on a duck, with messy results.
Hunting Tragedy Puts Spotlight on Route Choices | Media Release | NZMSC
MSC urges hunters to carefully consider their descent routes in steep terrain following the coroner’s findings on the death of Murray Horsfield in 2023.
www.mountainsafety.org.nz
Hunter drowns trying to cross river - NZ Herald
Get the latest local and breaking news, updates, opinion and insights from across New Zealand. News worth knowing - NZ Herald - your source for NZ news.
www.nzherald.co.nz
This is a fairly easy read, and well put together. Plenty of pictures for folks like me
A Hunter's tale
Developed by the New Zealand Mountain Safety Council (MSC) A Hunter's Tale represents the most comprehensive exploration of hunting participation and incidents in New Zealand. Building on the success
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