Fox - 60 ft lbs air rifle at 60 yards

[shakey jake]

All about shot placement, and a little bit of luck. Even a perfectly aimed shot can go wrong if the target moves.
Ive lost a fox with a 243, bet it didnt get far but i never found it.

 

[Gunner223]

Ive taken a dozen or more with my FAC FX .25 running at 72ft lb , 45yd bait station, head shot , to be honest you wait until there happily
feeding and you do get time for the shot, for the people who haven't tried the high powered air rifles ,I think you would be quite amazed,
very very quite and you can use them with in the area of farm buildings, I have a 223 and 17 hornet and are far to loud for close to farm buildings.

 

[Smellydog]

Hmmm.
I firmly believe that our alpha predator deserves our respect and, like all of our quarry, we should do what we can to give them a quick and pain-free end to their lives - of course shot placement is a key element of this but essentially this also means using a round with sufficient power and a bit more in reserve to perhaps make up for some margin of error on our behalf. This is why after many years of being restricted to .22 lr for fox control I moved to the .222 - when the authorities finally relented. Funny how times change - said authorities will now not grant a 22lr for fox control as it is considered inhumane…
This lad obviously hadn’t read all of the bang-flop script. .222 Vmax bullet traversed him taking most of the important bits with it and he dropped to the shot but…. As it turned out he didn’t go far but I suspect that a lesser chambering might not have had such an ending.

No one is recommending being humane my friend.

 

[Ratel]

No mention of what he is going to do about her cubs!

Very true, it doesn't seem to bother some folk. I've spent a lot of time to find litters over my lifetime and usually found them using a bit of knowledge.

 

[Mr Tree]

Very true, it doesn't seem to bother some folk. I've spent a lot of time to find litters over my lifetime and usually found them using a bit of knowledge.

Long gone the days of Cymag! Sweet dreams. I used to enjoy finding the earth, old chinese proverb, if you want to find a vixen, first find her cubs!

 

[Ratel]

Long gone the days of Cymag! Sweet dreams.

I always preferred using my Borders, you're sure when they retrieve them. Then spend the evening sat for the dog with rifle and gun. Sat watching the hill and sand holes for days and evenings during April to see if we could spot the adults out hunting. Often managed to watch her come in to feed them,then bolt her into a net, (seen too any missed) and nets weren't expensive and retain them for a shot. Then the sit later.

 

[Bowland blades]

With an air rifle?

Remember some folks will actually purchase something even when other items already in existence that do the job perfectly . 80ftlb PCP is capable of matching the std .22lr as regards performance . Personally speaking I think its a waste of good money , even more so when you look at the super power PCPs that can go up to shoot slugs that make them legal on deer in some nations.
There is actually past president for warfare this hundreds of years ago in battle but the psp was one of the first arms to come under a war convention ( because they left no smoke ) so the other side could not target the "sniper" of the day . Seriously this happened !
Personally speaking having had a few FAC air guns of my own and experience with all powers of airguns and powder burning alternatives ... The std 12ftlb is ideal for game and vermin up to a rabbit up to 50 yards in good hands when the wind is not to difficult , after that we have air power on FAC up to say 25 ft lb These can do the same as the 12 as regards quarry size but they hit harder and shoot a flatter trajectory. When you get up to 25-30 ftlb though the springers are a real handful in a spring piston type to shoot accurately. fifteen would be my personal choice but its not worthwhile against an off ticket sub 12 ftlb ( fac air is much harder to sell on , once on ticket few want them.
After the 30 ftlb air its my opinion that its want for than need in an airgun . The 22LR does very well from 30- 120 ft lb after that we have 17 HMR and 22 Mag , the 17 you get a flatter trajectory and the mag is the most powerful / hardest hitting . The Mag is in fact made to be a personal self defence weapon ( though its obviously a sporting and game getter here in the UK)
Going up into CF ...22 hornet is no longer Deer legal ( yet its killed a heck of a lot of Roe etc before the time of its ban from use on deer) . 222 next is legal on certain deer only , 223 likewise ( all this bunch can be used for rabbits so long as its head shots , it gets messy otherwise ) The off the shelf version of all these powder burners and the ammo availability of course runs rings around air power practically but some just plain like fiddling ( and you do a lot of fiddling owning one ) , is a game fpr the enthusiast though and if a person likes that is great - crack on have fun , enjoy!

 

[LuckyEddie]

Doesn’t matter what we think, it’s what the letter of the law says and what his license could be revoked for.

 

[Ratcatcher]

As a pest controler I have recently been refused a .25 fac air rifle for the culling of caged foxes, I spoke to the police who refused it on the grounds that I already have suitable calibre's (17hmr,22lr). The firearms manager stated that I should have been aware that this was contrary to home office guidance, and was also against all advice from the shooting organisation's. I would be very careful therefore putting your fac's at risk by advertising the fact!

 

[Heym SR20]

There are plenty of very powerful air rifles out there. Late 1700’s the Girandoni Air rifle was produced in Austria and I think used in the Austrian army and in America if my memory serves me correct.

There are modern high powered air rifles, I have seen videos of them
being used on South African antelope.

Provided you have a pellet with enough power that will penetrate and severe major blood vessels in the and around the heart and lungs no animal will live long, and have little doubt that most FAC air rifles could achieve this on a fox provided range is short and shot placement good.

Foxes have quite a sloping scull and pellets can easily slide off - in the same way as rifle bullets skim off sloping armour. I recall Fieldsports Britain’s Roy Lupton doing a video on this a few years back.

However There are much better tools for the job. I would happily shoot a fox with a 22 rimfire. I would prefer a high velocity solid to have the extra energy and penetration.

 

[Ratcatcher]

Out of sheer curiosity, does anyone have a specific clause allowing an fac air rifle for foxes?

 

[LuckyEddie]

Out of sheer curiosity, does anyone have a specific clause allowing an fac air rifle for foxes?

You won’t get it.
See my post 3 earlier.

 

[Ratcatcher]

You won’t get it.
See my post 3 earlier.

I agree, but like a lot of these things it's really down to the chief constable, my friend was refused a .243 for deer, but was allowed a 6.5 x 55?

 

[LuckyEddie]

I agree, but like a lot of these things it's really down to the chief constable, my friend was refused a .243 for deer, but was allowed a 6.5 x 55?

No I would disagree.
The .243 to 6.5 x 55 is going up the hierarchy.
The FAC air rifle is a non-option and if granted could lead to the chief Constable getting into bother.

Does the letter of the law allow FAC air rifles to be used on foxes - yes or no?

It would be interesting to see the guy’s cert states the air rifle can be used for.
If it doesn’t specifically mention fox as a quarry then he could be in deep doo-doo.
It would be akin to shooting a deer with a .22rf.

 

[Triggermortis]

If then you have an FAC air rifle conditioned for humane dispatch would the condition specify exactly what species it may be used on ?
Has anyone got species specific humane dispatch conditions on a ticket?

 

[Bo Diddley]

@villaman

 

[Smellydog]

Ist the video based in NZ?

 

[andyk]

Does the letter of the law allow FAC air rifles to be used on foxes - yes or no?

Yes.

If he has AOLQ and doesn’t cause unnecessary suffering, it’s legal.

It won’t count as good reason as the guidance you’ve linked shows. And, if he was to injure and not kill it, I’d have thought that guidance would be used against him if he was caught, so it’s not without risk.

 

[3595wilk]

The whole situation is confused.

HO GUIDANCE is not mandated - but often assumed to be so.

The guidance states calibres for quarry. At paragraph 12.25 it states,
Although not set out in legislation, common rifle cartridges considered suitable for the shooting of foxes range from .17 Remington, and .22 Hornet to .22 -250 and .220 Swift, though there is a wide range of suitable similar calibres commercially available. In windy areas, where heavier bullets aid accurate shooting, or if applicants wish to use one rifle for shooting both deer and foxes, they may choose a rifle in 6mm (.243/.244) or 6.5mm (.264) calibre. .22 Rim-fires are generally considered as having insufficient muzzle energy to be used against foxes at longer ranges. However, these could be suitable for use at short range by experienced persons, and may be permitted in certain situations such as around farm buildings or paddocks. It is for the operator to ensure that the quarry species are shot at the appropriate range with the appropriate ammunition to achieve a humane dispatch. Combination shot gun/rifles should have the rifled barrel in a similar calibre.

Also in the first attachment it summarises this making clear FAC Air is a no no.
The explanatory notes for it emphasise that as per attachment 2.

BASC guidance suggests based upon paragraph 13.9 “…it is the responsibility of the shooter and the shooting community to know what calibre is suitable for which quarry, and when certain quarry is lawful (including the need to obtain or rely upon a licence from the relevant licensing authority to permit the shooting of protected species).

Once initial “good reason” has been established for the possession of a firearm, there is no requirement for “good reason” to be demonstrated for additional quarry species or amendments PROVIDING THE FIREARMS ARE NOT UNDERPOWERED FOR THE SPECIES (see also paragraph 13.17). A cartridge should be capable of achieving a humane kill, and it is the responsibility of the shooter to ensure that any excess energy will be absorbed by the backstop. The “any other lawful quarry” condition (which also covers protected species that the certificate holder is licensed to shoot) should be applied. If an applicant is suitable to hold a firearm certificate and is deemed safe to do so, there is no requirement to restrict the quarry they shoot by the use of conditions.”


My AOLQ conditions apply to my FAC Air. Yet HO guidance considers FAC air to be "UNDERPOWERED FOR THE SPECIES" .But this is guidance....not absolute.......no wonder there is no certainty.

I've considered using it over bait at 25 yards for a fox destroying a small holdings chickens. I didn't in the end - and have come to the conclusion that personally, I wouldn't use it for Fox.

I was going to rely on AOLQ - but the guidance is such a mess and can be interpreted in different ways....and if my FEO disagreed with my interpretation, would I have my licence revoked? Maybe.

Then again, people view it differently. Here's a video of Mark Ripley dropping a fox with a Brocock FAC. Starts about 6:35.

 

[villaman]

No I would disagree.
The .243 to 6.5 x 55 is going up the hierarchy.
The FAC air rifle is a non-option and if granted could lead to the chief Constable getting into bother.

Does the letter of the law allow FAC air rifles to be used on foxes - yes or no?

It would be interesting to see the guy’s cert states the air rifle can be used for.
If it doesn’t specifically mention fox as a quarry then he could be in deep doo-doo.
It would be akin to shooting a deer with a .22rf.

When I first had my grant for FAC air .22 & .25 it had fox on it , that was 6 , 1/2 years ago