Redding Full Length Sizing Die and Lee Shellholder - Die Doesn't Touch Shoulder

[angusb1]

I tried to resize some 7mm Rem Mag brass this morning using the Redding type S bushing style full length sizing die I got with the rifle. It's the first time I've used it and I didn't have a shellholder for it so I bought a Lee one, thinking a shellholder is a shellholder. Turns out that may be an incorrect assumption as even with the bushing stem removed from the die, the die doesn't reach the shoulder.

My process is to put the shellholder on the ram and raise it all the way up, then screw the sizing die down until it firmly touches the shellholder, back it off a full turn, and then try to resize a case, if the comparator shows the case hasn't been shortened, screw the die down another 1/8 of a turn and try again until the comparator shows I have bumped the shoulder back 0.002", then tighten the locking ring and never touch it again, having achieved my 0.002" shoulder bump.

I never got to push the shoulder back even when the die was hard up against the shellholder so I think the Lee shellholder must be taller than the Redding equivalent. I think my next step should be to either shim the inside of the shellholder so the case head sits higher in the die, or if that doesn't give me enough adjustment I could chuck the shellholder in a pillar drill and bring it down onto some wet and dry paper to reduce its height.

What do you think? Anyone else experienced this before? Can anyone else think of a better way to solve this without buying the Redding shellholder set for £65? I only want to size brass for this rifle so having a setup which will only work with it is not a problem.

Cheers for any insights, it would be good to hear what you all think about it and whether I have the right end of the stick or not.

Angus

 

[Turkish]

Where has the brass come from? Is it new, previously fired in that rifle or from an unknown source ?
Have you tried chambering the un-sized and sized brass in your rifle without the firing pin in the bolt?
I would go with the rifle chamber as the gauge, rather than looking for the shoulder bump.

How did you choose the shell holder size? The numbering system - if that is what you used - across several manufacturers is not universal.
Just a starting point.

 

[angusb1]

Thanks.

"Where has the brass come from?" It has been previously fired in that rifle. There is also some brass that came with it which has been resized to 0.002" shorter by the previous owner.

"Have you tried chambering the un-sized and sized brass in your rifle without the firing pin in the bolt?" I have tried chambering both, the unsized and sized brass both chambers, just. Bolt handle is slightly stiff closing. The brass resized by the previous owner fits better, bolt closes easily.

"I would go with the rifle chamber as the gauge, rather than looking for the shoulder bump." If I use it as it is I am just neck sizing. I would prefer to shoulder bump.

"How did you choose the shell holder size?" I looked up the shellholder that should be used for 7mm Rem Mag in the Lee table. Only on trying it the penny dropped that it was probably taller than the Redding equivalent.

 

[Yorkie]

Redding make competition shell holder sets that vary in size in .002" increments that allow simple changes to the amount of shoulder bump.

Competition Shellholder Sets | Redding Reloading Equipment

The easy to use Redding Competition Shellholders enable you to perfectly match the headspace of your reloaded ammo to any firearm. Once the proper shellholder is determined, your results are repeatable and no adjustment is necessary. Download Shellholder By Cartridge Sheet Shellholders...

redding-reloading.com

I am sure someone will be along with a less spendy option.

 

[angusb1]

I think that's probably the best off the shelf option.

 

[Sinistral]

Only on trying it the penny dropped that it was probably taller than the Redding equivalent.

All brands of shellholders have the same .125" clearance, so LEE is no different.
Redding Competition shellholders increase that clearance by .002" increments - .127", .129", .131", etc. so will make your problem worse.

 

[fizzbangwhallop]

All brands of shellholders should have the same .125" clearance, so LEE can be different.
Redding Competition shellholders increase that clearance by .002" increments - .127", .129", .131", etc. so will make your problem worse.

As the 100 Lapua cases re-sized for my .223 based .20Prac can attest!

Cheers
Fizz

 

[Cyres]

I am not sure that's correct. A long time ago I had an issue and measured 3 types of shell holder and one was 2 thou different. I have Lee RCBs and Redding holders. I can't remember the odd one out sorry!
D

 

[Sinistral]

If others feel they know better that's fine, but this clearance is an industry standard. It has to be with such a critical component.
My Lee #5 and Redding #6 produce identical results in 7mm RM, and other mags. I don't concern myself with 'bump' as firing cases once will match headspace to the chamber shoulder rathen than the belt. Lee Collet Neck Size dies maintain that fit automatically from then on.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

I had this issue on 7.65 x 53 Mauser cases and my final solution (looking at my files) was that I had to shorten the bottom of the sizing die by 0.014 thou, then I added a 0.13 thou feeler blade at TDC on top of shellholder to get cases to fit at zero tolerance into the old Mauser rifles chamber.

 

[fizzbangwhallop]

If others feel they know better that's fine, but this clearance is an industry standard. It has to be with such a critical component.
My Lee #5 and Redding #6 produce identical results in 7mm RM, and other mags. I don't concern myself with 'bump' as firing cases once will match headspace to the chamber shoulder rathen than the belt. Lee Collet Neck Size dies maintain that fit automatically from then on.

Then you were fortunate….

Dasherman put the rifle together for me and I went back down to his to spend an hour together measuring the headspace and inserting shims behind the case against the bolt face to work it out.

It was the Lee shellholder at fault with a non-standard deck height… in comparison, using an RCBS shell holder in conjunction with the Redding die was fine. I would go and measure it but it got lobbed as far as possible over the nearest hedge

If I’d used a Lee die with the Lee shellholder the result ‘might’ have been different. Who knows? I know the general recommendation is to use the same make but I was younger then and not so wise

These days I use a Co-Ax …. no contest.

Cheers,

Fizz

 

[Selous]

Redding make competition shell holder sets that vary in size in .002" increments that allow simple changes to the amount of shoulder bump.

Competition Shellholder Sets | Redding Reloading Equipment

The easy to use Redding Competition Shellholders enable you to perfectly match the headspace of your reloaded ammo to any firearm. Once the proper shellholder is determined, your results are repeatable and no adjustment is necessary. Download Shellholder By Cartridge Sheet Shellholders...

redding-reloading.com

I am sure someone will be along with a less spendy option.

I think they only get thicker than standard rather than thinner but I may be mistaken.
To the OP…. Buy a redding shell holder to match your redding dies and that should sort your problem. Alternatively have a small amount machined off the die

 

[Yorkie]

I think they only get thicker than standard rather than thinner but I may be mistaken.
To the OP…. Buy a redding shell holder to match your redding dies and that should sort your problem. Alternatively have a small amount machined off the die

Hi.
Fair enough, i take your point. It would seem i have misunderstood things. Apologies to the OP.

 

[Tim1]

Alternatively have a small amount machined off the die

I would leave the die alone and take a skim off the shell holder as the cheapest component to achieve the same effect. That’s what I did with my Rem Mag.

T

 

[Bavarianbrit]

I would leave the die alone and take a skim off the shell holder as the cheapest component to achieve the same effect. That’s what I did with my Rem Mag.

T

I first did that as the obvious thing to do but then it transpired that there was not enough metal left above the groove for the case, or I had ground through the case hardening because it came apart when I was pulling the case down out of the die, the brass even though softer than the Lee shellholder had enough grip around the head of the case to tear the shellholder apart. Hence a shorter die was needed in my instance.

 

[Tim1]

I first did that as the obvious thing to do but then it transpired that there was not enough metal left above the groove for the case, or I had ground through the case hardening because it came apart when I was pulling the case down out of the die, the brass even though softer than the Lee shellholder had enough grip around the head of the case to tear the shellholder apart. Hence a shorter die was needed in my instance.

I only took about 10 thou off and it works a treat.

T

 

[angusb1]

All brands of shellholders have the same .125" clearance, so LEE is no different.
Redding Competition shellholders increase that clearance by .002" increments - .127", .129", .131", etc. so will make your problem worse.

Thanks for this.

So I must either have a die which is too long to the shoulder or my chamber is shorter than usual from the belt to to the shoulder. I read the Redding catalogue and it says just what you do about the standard height of shellholders being 0.125" from top to the bottom of the recess which holds the case head, and my Lee shellholder measures 0.125".



Having read how @Bavarianbrit ripped the top off a shellholder which had been reduced in height, I decided to take up the suggestion another friend had made and try shimming the shellholder under the case head as there was some space there. I cut some shims out of a coke can and with 2 shims each 0.0035" thick I was bumping back the shoulder by 0.002". I could take 0.007" off the bottom of the die but I haven't made the adapter plate to fit my 4 jaw chuck to my lathe yet so will stick with the coke can shims for the time being.

Thank you everyone who has responded to this thread, it's been really useful to have you advice to help me understand what was going on with it. Now I have what I wanted for no money spent which will get me nearer to the Larry Willis body sizing collet die I would like to try.

 

[angusb1]

Hi.
Fair enough, i take your point. It would seem i have misunderstood things. Apologies to the OP.

No apology needed, I thought exactly the same when I first heard about the Redding shellholder set, didn't realise they provided adjustments in the wrong direction for my issue to begin with.