Anyone going up to Holts to look at items in Sealed Bid auction?
- Thread starter Jack3
- Start date
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Buying at Auction without having a good look or having somebody whom you know and trust is a bit of a lottery.
The sealed bid is where all the less than perfect stuff goes. A lot of the stock comes from the gun trade when they clear out the gunrooms to make space. A lot of the rest is from estates of shooters who have go e to the happy hunting grounds. Much the easier for the executors to put all the guns and other shooting stuff to the auction house.
From the auctioneers point of view is a volume transaction, photograph, catalogue and publish. A 25% fee on a £100 item is only £25. Time to process one item probably takes care of that fee, indeed a lot will sell for a lot less.
Realistically you will find some really interesting things, and some real bargains. But you have be sanguine about. A gun may be completely uneconomic to repair or put back in working order. Its either scrap it or put it back into another auction.
Last year I picked up a nice pre war Webley and Scott 16bore for £300. It was a bit tatty and the stock was black and action covered in dried out oil. Bluing a bit worn. It had been in storage for many years. It’s the sort of gun that goes straight to auction.
I have the skills and expertise. It was basically tight on the action, and bores in good condition and dimension. I stripped it down, gave it a thorough clean. The wood work, I took layers of grime off it, took out the worst of the dents, and over several months brought the finish back. It works well, but cast right handed. At that point I decided that I like the gun and it works for me. So I took a friendly RFD who fitted it for me - I shoot left handed, and opened the chokes so I can shoot steel. Cost was about £350. It is now an utterly superb little gun and I love it. Vintage Guns had a very similar gun (within a few digits on serial number) retailing at £1,300 - but that would have been with been post a service and with guarantee.
If I had mine put into the trade to be serviced, refreshed etc I would have spent £500 to £1,000 plus. If had a broken part inside - £200 +/- £150 depending on what it is.
I knew what I was getting into before I parted with my cash. But if I was buying unseen from auction I would have not a clue.
When I last visited one of my favourite emporiums, one of his other clients had just sent him a lovely gun from a fine maker. It looked lovely. The client was delighted to have one it in an auction. But the ejectors needed a lot of reworking, and the one of the locks was missing bits inside which would require remaking by hand. Cost of putting it back into good working order, plus the cost he had paid for it in the first place was going to be pretty high.
However you will often get lucky, especially if you know what you are looking for. But actually handling a gun and feeling how it opens etc etc soon tells what is going with it.
The sealed bid is where all the less than perfect stuff goes. A lot of the stock comes from the gun trade when they clear out the gunrooms to make space. A lot of the rest is from estates of shooters who have go e to the happy hunting grounds. Much the easier for the executors to put all the guns and other shooting stuff to the auction house.
From the auctioneers point of view is a volume transaction, photograph, catalogue and publish. A 25% fee on a £100 item is only £25. Time to process one item probably takes care of that fee, indeed a lot will sell for a lot less.
Realistically you will find some really interesting things, and some real bargains. But you have be sanguine about. A gun may be completely uneconomic to repair or put back in working order. Its either scrap it or put it back into another auction.
Last year I picked up a nice pre war Webley and Scott 16bore for £300. It was a bit tatty and the stock was black and action covered in dried out oil. Bluing a bit worn. It had been in storage for many years. It’s the sort of gun that goes straight to auction.
I have the skills and expertise. It was basically tight on the action, and bores in good condition and dimension. I stripped it down, gave it a thorough clean. The wood work, I took layers of grime off it, took out the worst of the dents, and over several months brought the finish back. It works well, but cast right handed. At that point I decided that I like the gun and it works for me. So I took a friendly RFD who fitted it for me - I shoot left handed, and opened the chokes so I can shoot steel. Cost was about £350. It is now an utterly superb little gun and I love it. Vintage Guns had a very similar gun (within a few digits on serial number) retailing at £1,300 - but that would have been with been post a service and with guarantee.
If I had mine put into the trade to be serviced, refreshed etc I would have spent £500 to £1,000 plus. If had a broken part inside - £200 +/- £150 depending on what it is.
I knew what I was getting into before I parted with my cash. But if I was buying unseen from auction I would have not a clue.
When I last visited one of my favourite emporiums, one of his other clients had just sent him a lovely gun from a fine maker. It looked lovely. The client was delighted to have one it in an auction. But the ejectors needed a lot of reworking, and the one of the locks was missing bits inside which would require remaking by hand. Cost of putting it back into good working order, plus the cost he had paid for it in the first place was going to be pretty high.
However you will often get lucky, especially if you know what you are looking for. But actually handling a gun and feeling how it opens etc etc soon tells what is going with it.
Thanks @Heym SR20 - sounds like good advice.
In addition the the excellent advice above, you will get the vast majority of the information you need through a request for a condition report and extra photos. If there is any aspect you are particularly concerned about, ask about it when requesting the report and they will make sure it's covered. Online bidders are now an important part of their business, and I think they have got pretty good at catering to us.
Personally, I think the expansion in online sales means there are hardly any bargains nowadays. Estimates are set low to create interest, but hammer/final prices, plus premiums, plus shipping, plus the risk/cost of rectifying the defects most S/H and vintage guns have, all need to be factored in.
What remains is the opportunity to see, and buy from, a range of guns you wouldn't find anywhere else.
That said, the sealed bid drives me insane, as I find it nigh on impossible to guess the market value of rarely-available guns in states of repair that may be at once comparatively good and objectively poor... So far, I've always guessed too low, but if I ever win anything it will always be with a nagging doubt that I overshot the next bidder by a country mile!
Personally, I think the expansion in online sales means there are hardly any bargains nowadays. Estimates are set low to create interest, but hammer/final prices, plus premiums, plus shipping, plus the risk/cost of rectifying the defects most S/H and vintage guns have, all need to be factored in.
What remains is the opportunity to see, and buy from, a range of guns you wouldn't find anywhere else.
That said, the sealed bid drives me insane, as I find it nigh on impossible to guess the market value of rarely-available guns in states of repair that may be at once comparatively good and objectively poor... So far, I've always guessed too low, but if I ever win anything it will always be with a nagging doubt that I overshot the next bidder by a country mile!
Absolutely. I have had a look at buying a couple of shotguns in the past but by the time everything is added in people are paying more than they would if they bought it retail.
Good if you are selling though. I have sold a couple of rifles that got no interest or lowballs on here / gun trader and ended up with decent prices even after commission.
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