EU ban on lead ammunition for airguns, shotguns and rifles

[nf-fuse]

No time soon. It is still being specified as mandatory to use lead roofing in many cases.

That is for the very good reason that there's no particular problem with the toxicity of lead anywhere except when it is used as ammunition, at which point it takes on magical properties which make it very hazardous to any organism which is NOT particularly exposed to it.

A lot of water that ends up in the water system flows over lead.

I have used lead free stuff in construction. To be honest it's okay.

 

[cjm1066]

Lead in primers probably needs removing!

 

[Apthorpe]

Lead in primers probably needs removing!

Indeed. Lead in primers is fairly likely to be a more serious toxicity issue for humans than lead ammunition.

 

[MAH]

Thank God for Brexit

My understanding is Starmer has effectively just reversed Brexit.
He agreed Dynamic Alignment with the EU earlier this month.
Effectively we are now mandated to follow EU legislation, both existing and new for the next 12 years.
Some call it surrender, I call it treachery.
He's knowingly reversed one of the key outcomes of the referendum.
M

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

And BASC with its own volte face and proposed support of a ban on lead shot. But chooses to call it a "voluntary ban". But it's still nevertheless advancing a proposal to ban on lead shot. No matter how much they choose to try to back pedal from their February 2020 "declaration".

In February 2020 nine organisations published a statement on a voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting. BASC continues to encourage that voluntary transition in many ways and there is no 'back pedalling". Here is an article from latest issue of Shooting Times that underlines the fact that the past five years have shown that shooting’s traditions and its adaptability can coexist. By choosing leadership, the shooting community is future-proofing the sport for the next generation:

Leadership, rather than compliance

You state you are a CPSA member so it is strange that you continue to evade requests to update us on CPSA's position yet choose to continue to comment on BASC.

The CPSA stated in February 2020: “We at the CPSA have been involved in the discussions with the game-shooting organisations and whilst we understand their decision to voluntarily remove lead from their sport, this will have no effect on clay-target shooting”.

The CPSA response to the HSE recommendations in December 2024 stated: "In early 2025 we will be setting up a working group of CPSA board members, ground operators & partners from the gun trade, to plan this potential key change for our sport in the coming years".

 

[Liveonce]

The CPSA response to the HSE recommendations in December 2024 stated: "In early 2025 we will be setting up a working group of CPSA board members, ground operators & partners from the gun trade, to plan this potential key change for our sport in the coming years".

However to date this looks never to have happened.

Clearly if the EU think it is not sensible, or practical to ban lead from ammunition without them suggesting about a ten year transition period then how is it acceptable or practical for the U.K. to do so, when we are so much dependent on the EU for components to assemble cartridges in the U.K. and on the various EU cartridge makes that we import.

Interesting the EU consider affordability to be important, yet we look not to do so, after all if the next generation cannot afford to shoot then it’s game over.

 

[enfieldspares]

Interesting the EU consider affordability to be important, yet we look not to do so.

I did in my submission regarding the .410. Did BASC?

Cost for 1,000 lead was about £400. Say £10 a box. Bismuth was about £1,500 per 1,000. So cost clearly an issue here and that as far as I know there are no UK loaders producing steel .410 cartridges. As they cannot do so within CIP pressure limits?

Perhaps the BASC contributor might remind us if it is correct, or not correct, that BASC decided that it would seek no exemption from any proposal to phase out lead for the .410.

 

[LuckyEddie]

Has anyone talked to / had feedback from farmers?
Shooting over grazing land with steel shot, who picks up the plastic wads?
Or will they be left for the cattle and sheep to ingest and potentially cause the farmer to run up vet bills?

The land I have permission for is fibre wad only.
Will I need to stop if forced to go to steel?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I did in my submission regarding the .410. Did BASC?

Cost for 1,000 lead was about £400. Say £10 a box. Bismuth was about £1,500 per 1,000. So cost clearly an issue here and that as far as I know there are no UK loaders producing steel .410 cartridges. As they cannot do so within CIP pressure limits?

Perhaps the BASC contributor might remind us if it is correct, or not correct, that BASC decided that it would seek no exemption from any proposal to phase out lead for the .410.

BASC has said no to any further restriction on lead ammunition at every stage of the HSE lead ammunition review.

To repeat, you state you are a CPSA member so it is strange that you continue to evade requests to update us on CPSA's position yet choose to continue to comment on BASC.

The CPSA stated in February 2020: “We at the CPSA have been involved in the discussions with the game-shooting organisations and whilst we understand their decision to voluntarily remove lead from their sport, this will have no effect on clay-target shooting”.

The CPSA response to the HSE recommendations in December 2024 stated: "In early 2025 we will be setting up a working group of CPSA board members, ground operators & partners from the gun trade, to plan this potential key change for our sport in the coming years".

 

[Liveonce]

The water soluble biodegradable wads disappear very quickly, other types can still take years, several years.
However the water soluble material looks to be the weakest of the material in use and unlikely to be fit for purpose at the higher pressures and smaller diameters 28gauge and .410 operate at, but we will have to wait and see.

I shoot round a dairy farm and like you it is fibre wads only, i showed the owner several of the various so called biodegradable wads and he was not impressed, continue using fibre wads all the time you can was his instructions. his land his rules.

 

[Liveonce]

The CPSA stated in February 2020: “We at the CPSA have been involved in the discussions with the game-shooting organisations and whilst we understand their decision to voluntarily remove lead from their sport, this will have no effect on clay-target shooting”.

This was either because they did not expect the ban on lead to include clay shooting or very naive if not.

And was referring to the voluntary transition not the HSE proposal that has widened the scope of a lead ban.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

This was either because they did not expect the ban on lead to include clay shooting or very naive if not.

And was referring to the voluntary transition not the HSE proposal that has widened the scope of a lead ban.

In April you mentioned that you had emailed the CPSA twice so far this year asking for an update and never got a reply. Is that still the case?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

The water soluble biodegradable wads disappear very quickly, other types can still take years, several years.
However the water soluble material looks to be the weakest of the material in use and unlikely to be fit for purpose at the higher pressures and smaller diameters 28gauge and .410 operate at, but we will have to wait and see.

I shoot round a dairy farm and like you it is fibre wads only, i showed the owner several of the various so called biodegradable wads and he was not impressed, continue using fibre wads all the time you can was his instructions. his land his rules.

I don't have details but I understand that at the Northern Shooting Show there were biodegradable .410 wadding and 28g steel cartridges available as new products. Innovation will continue and will no doubt accelerate if dates are set for changes in law whether in the EU (+NI) or GB.

 

[Liveonce]

In April you mentioned that you had emailed the CPSA twice so far this year asking for an update and never got a reply. Is that still the case?

No reply received.

 

[Liveonce]

I don't have details but I understand that at the Northern Shooting Show there were biodegradable .410 wadding and 28g steel cartridges available as new products. Innovation will continue and will no doubt accelerate if dates are set for changes in law whether in the EU (+NI) or GB.

If the EU give a ten year transition period are they likely to hurry to support a u.k. much shorter transition especially as no legal need to move to biodegradable wads. Money talks the U.K. market is tiny compared to the EU and we source the majority of our cartridge components from outside the U.K. No mass migration to biodegradable wads by the big players has occurred since 2020 only a few cartridge manufacturers going their own way to varying standards.

In reality the only comparable biodegradable wad to that of a fibre wad that have become available is the cardboard cup type.

May be you are correct and it will all be good, however the plastic industry has been looking for years for the holy grail of an alternative cheap biodegradable plastic the packaging industry would embrace it, an industry worth billions more than shooting, yet I was putting vegetables into paper bags yesterday in the farm shop

What percentage of cartridges for live quarry shooting using non toxic shot and biodegradable wads were sold in the u.k. by the manufacturers and importers year by year from 2020 to 2025 compared to lead?

 

[timbrayford]

My understanding is Starmer has effectively just reversed Brexit.
He agreed Dynamic Alignment with the EU earlier this month.
Effectively we are now mandated to follow EU legislation, both existing and new for the next 12 years.
Some call it surrender, I call it treachery.
He's knowingly reversed one of the key outcomes of the referendum.
M

When Reform gets in the EU will learn the folly of all that "Britain must be punished" nonsense

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

No reply received.

That's strange. Maybe forward your two un-replied emails to a few of the directors?

Directors

Clay Pigeon Shooting Association Directors

www.cpsa.co.uk

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

What percentage of cartridges for live quarry shooting using non toxic shot and biodegradable wads were sold in the u.k. by the manufacturers and importers year by year from 2020 to 2025 compared to lead

I don't know if such figures exist, I have not seen any published, perhaps worth asking the GTA.

 

[Dunwaters]

I don't know if such figures exist, I have not seen any published, perhaps worth asking the GTA.

It shouldn’t be difficult to collate your own statistics, you should be doing it already to monitor the progress of your voluntary transition.
If BASC and other shooting organisations aren’t , wont, or can’t do it, Wild Justice will do it for you.

 

[Liveonce]

It shouldn’t be difficult to collate your own statistics, you should be doing it already to monitor the progress of your voluntary transition.
If BASC and other shooting organisations aren’t , wont, or can’t do it, Wild Justice will do it for you.

After all, all the cartridge manufactures were consulted prior to the voluntary transition announcement so they should be happy to help as one would hope the importers would.

What measures did the shooting organisations have in place to monitor the success of the transition?